BPMN2 Compliance?

[snortz]

We used to use a designer in eclipse that had pools & swim lanes.  We used the pools to identify processes assigned to external organization entities. And swim lanes to identify activities assigned to a particular "role".  The importance is to define the messages between processes in different pools.

This we understand (from a previous implementation) is what is defined in the BPMN2 standard.

With the current version of the designer (that is integrated within the console v6.0.1) it appears there is no concept of Pools at all and the swim lanes are graphically implemented as random rectangles rather than pretty swim lanes.

So is this version (6.0.x intended to be BPMN2 compliant.  If so how can we implement such features and if not then when will this be addressed.

Thanks

[swiderski.maciej]

jBPM mainly focuses on common executable subset of BPMN2 and that's what is available. jBPM supports single process definition in the process file and pools are usually used to visualize more than one process and interaction between them. Lane as you said are simple grouping mechanism to allow auto assign of user tasks.

HTH

[snortz]

There are 2 points for your consideration

1. the design in jBPM v5.x had pools and swim lanes and inter-process messaging.

2. Pools are used when a process expands across parties (Third Parties) e.g. when a Bank uses a lawyer to complete critical documentation before the Bank can complete the process.  Without such a BPMN2 feature you are limiting jBPM to simple processes that can't reflect real-world implmentations.

If this is true then it ahs to be asked whether it is really fit for purpose (the documentation limited as it is , does refer to BPMN2 compliance).

So....... 

[swiderski.maciej]

David Norton wrote:

There are 2 points for your consideration

1. the design in jBPM v5.x had pools and swim lanes and inter-process messaging.

nothing has been removed from the design capabilities between 5 and 6 so if that was there it is still in version 6

David Norton wrote:

2. Pools are used when a process expands across parties (Third Parties) e.g. when a Bank uses a lawyer to complete critical documentation before the Bank can complete the process.  Without such a BPMN2 feature you are limiting jBPM to simple processes that can't reflect real-world implmentations.

I don't see this as limitation, jBPM is process engine which main responsibility is to execute processes and the tooling then should expose all the capabilities of the engine so they can be possible for end users. If you're are looking for design tool that supports all BPMN2 constructs then I am sure you can find better tools out there.Communication with third parties might be represented in various ways, it does not have to be always via pools and swimlanes as they do not bring execution semantics thus are less relevant for process engine. They can still be shown via proper documentation of the activities (correct naming standards etc)

Usage of pools and swim lanes does not make the process complex, same way not using it does not make the process simple or not real world use case

David Norton wrote:

If this is true then it ahs to be asked whether it is really fit for purpose (the documentation limited as it is , does refer to BPMN2 compliance).

So.......

documentation does refer to native execution of BPMN2 processes and tells as well that it provides support for subset of the BPMN2 spec called common executable so there is no statement jBPM is fully compliant with BPMN2 spec.

HTH

[snortz]

Hi Maceij,

Sorry for my delay I've been away from the office for a while.

1. Yes you are of course right (Pools are primarily for visualization) however they also show the messages between the processes (usually a simple trigger (parameters) and a returned result) which the primary process must wait for - this is the issue!

2. As far as I remember - Pools used to be present in the eclipse process modeller (v5.00) - as well as any other BPMN2 process modeller that you may wish to import processes from.

The work around maybe to use sub-processes but this is not good for BMPN2 as the other processes are actual with other parties (Parners like suppliers etc)

Consequently I believe this should be reintroduced in a future release.