[16:47:22] ***JOIN TO CHANNEL(23.09.2009 16:47:22)
[16:57:51] rruss (n=rruss@redhat/jboss/rruss) Quit [ Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ]
[17:00:26] ppitonak (n=ppitonak@wireless-101.fi.muni.cz) has joined #richfaces
[17:01:33] nbelaevski: hello all
[17:01:37] abelevich: hi
[17:01:41] ilya_shaikovsky: Hi All guys!
[17:02:44] rruss (n=rruss@redhat/jboss/rruss) has joined #richfaces
[17:03:08] nbelaevski: ok, let's get started
[17:03:34] pyaschenko (n=pasha@195.222.78.122) has joined #richfaces
[17:04:31] nbelaevski: we've already discussed status yesterday - meeting minutes has been posted, please take a look
[17:04:44] nbelaevski: pyaschenko: hi Pasha
[17:04:52] pyaschenko: hi
[17:05:02] nbelaevski: http://www.jboss.org/community/wiki/RichFaces40MeetingAgenda9-23-2009
[17:05:12] nbelaevski: that's our agenda for today
[17:06:13] nbelaevski: first of all, let's discuss queues
[17:06:20] nbelaevski: and client-side library
[17:06:42] nbelaevski: we had a discussion with Alex yesterday
[17:07:36] alexsmirnov (n=asmirnov@adsl-71-132-209-245.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #richfaces
[17:08:04] nbelaevski: alexsmirnov: hi Alex
[17:08:19] nbelaevski: we were discussing client-side libraries
[17:08:34] ilya_shaikovsky: Hi Alex!
[17:09:12] alexsmirnov: Hi! Let me get a cup of coffe :-)
[17:10:03] ilya_shaikovsky: :)
[17:10:07] nbelaevski: conslusions: idea to replace jsf.js by providing our renderer for behaviors won't work, because jsf.js can contain another scripts necessary for JSF
[17:10:35] nbelaevski: another options:
[17:11:21] nbelaevski: 1) override renderers for AJAX behavior to use some kind of richfaces.ajax function
[17:11:58] nbelaevski: 2) replace jsf.ajax functions by our own implementation by loading our client-side library after jsf.js
[17:12:33] nbelaevski: 3) employ existing jsf.ajax functionality and extend it with our features
[17:13:40] nbelaevski: 4) keep both implementations and let them work side-by-side - JSF components use jsf.ajax and RF components use richfaces.ajax
[17:14:27] ilya_shaikovsky: 4) - in this case we will have two request queues ?
[17:14:31] nbelaevski: pyaschenko: alexsmirnov: thoughts?
[17:14:38] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: yes
[17:14:51] ilya_shaikovsky: as you said it's too weird :)
[17:14:55] nbelaevski: just to mention, we have the following features to add
[17:14:56] pyaschenko: and two ajax requests too
[17:15:00] alexsmirnov: option 2) seems non-realizible too, we have no warranty about loading order.
[17:16:36] nbelaevski: alexsmirnov: why? will this: {@ResourceDependency("jsf.js"), @ResourceDependency("richfaces.js")} work?
[17:19:03] alexsmirnov: What name for jsf.js would be in MyFaces implementation ? It also would contain different set of functions...
[17:20:11] nbelaevski: javax.faces/jsf.js is fixed in specification
[17:20:48] nbelaevski: we are giong to override only public API declared in specification: there are four functions
[17:21:04] nbelaevski: request/response/addOnError/addOnEvent
[17:21:18] alexsmirnov: Yes, it can work.
[17:22:03] nbelaevski: ok, back to the list of features
[17:22:13] nbelaevski: 1) queueing extension
[17:22:31] nbelaevski: 2) addition of external scripts/styles by AJAX request
[17:23:02] ppitonak (n=ppitonak@wireless-101.fi.muni.cz) Quit [ Remote closed the connection ]
[17:23:26] nbelaevski: 3) oncomplete/onbeforedomupdate rendered when request is processed
[17:23:46] nbelaevski: 4) cleanup for DOM elements and components
[17:24:52] nbelaevski: 5) Browser history support
[17:25:25] nbelaevski: 6) generation of debug information for AJAX log - e.g. submitted parameter values
[17:26:09] nbelaevski: 7) further improvements over std. script...
[17:26:45] nbelaevski: that are the features we need to put into CS script
[17:26:53] nbelaevski: is there anything to add?
[17:27:31] ilya_shaikovsky: we may add as "to discuss" proposal of client side cache
[17:27:54] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: yup we can
[17:28:03] alexsmirnov: I can't quickly recall something important... but it probably "push" features.
[17:28:23] nbelaevski: alexsmirnov: thanks, that's right
[17:28:29] nbelaevski: 8) "push" feature
[17:30:02] nbelaevski: so, most of this features are impossible to implement as extension to std. AJAX API
[17:30:32] nbelaevski: and we have to choose variant of integration that will allow us:
[17:30:54] nbelaevski: 1) to downgrade functionality gracefully with the standard script
[17:31:34] nbelaevski: 2) to be compatible with 3rd party components (including std. JSF components as they're external for us)
[17:33:24] alexsmirnov: It is possible to overwrite some standard component renderers, so we can enforce compatibility with base components.
[17:34:30] nbelaevski: yes, but this won't work with 3rd party components using public JS API
[17:35:26] nbelaevski: btw, one more goal for our CS library is have clear API and documentation so that extensions can be proposed for inclusions as standard ones into future JSF versions
[17:36:01] nbelaevski: pyaschenko: that is something to consider doing arhitectural design
[17:37:05] alexsmirnov: I think the best solution is custom behavior renderer that loads all libraries ( standard and extension ) and manages additional features.
[17:43:28] nbelaevski: alexsmirnov: ok, let's go this way
[17:44:14] rruss (n=rruss@redhat/jboss/rruss) Quit [ Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) ]
[17:44:15] nbelaevski: to queues
[17:44:53] nbelaevski: Ilya has updated queues specification according to the improvement proposed on forum
[17:45:32] nbelaevski: Ilya, please add some information on how std. components should function with queues
[17:45:49] ilya_shaikovsky: already
[17:45:53] nbelaevski: looks like it's opposite to what we are going to do
[17:46:03] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: ok, thanks
[17:46:32] qawse_ (n=chatzill@193.192.227.155) has joined #richfaces
[17:47:02] nbelaevski: and to iteration components...
[17:47:21] nbelaevski: Anton has started forum thread about models - please take a look and comment
[17:48:25] ilya_shaikovsky: ok I will add comment.. currently I prefer working on current implementation improvements
[17:48:34] abelevich: +1
[17:49:16] nbelaevski: both points are about improvements over current implementation :)
[17:50:12] nbelaevski: comment on forum please
[17:50:16] ilya_shaikovsky: ok
[17:50:20] abelevich: ok
[17:50:32] nbelaevski: and to community points...
[17:51:25] nbelaevski: hot topics are CDK walkthrough and "how to build" articles
[17:52:51] qawse (n=chatzill@19-139.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch) Quit [ Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) ]
[17:53:03] nbelaevski: what state are these articles in?
[17:54:43] pietia (n=pietia@cch18.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit [ Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ]
[17:55:21] abelevich: sorry but I haven't any ideas  what I should write in the "how to build article"
[17:55:25] rruss (n=rruss@redhat/jboss/rruss) has joined #richfaces
[17:55:31] alexsmirnov: I wrote a lot of articles. Please, tell me what is not clean to you, so I will improve documentation for these points.
[17:55:32] pietia (n=pietia@bkg249.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #richfaces
[17:56:07] abelevich: best practice for example ...
[17:56:33] nbelaevski: abelevich: it should describe new build system structure, necessary environment setup and basical usage
[17:57:30] abelevich: Is basical usage means type "mvn clean install" ?
[17:59:03] nbelaevski: abelevich: yes, like this
[17:59:39] ilya_shaikovsky: As far as thought.. initially this article was planned to describe architectural points.. :) and now it's just means how to set up environment :)
[17:59:43] alexsmirnov: No, It should include base configuration and project structure too.
[18:01:42] abelevich: ok . I'll try to create draft version of this article  and mail it for review ...
[18:02:21] ilya_shaikovsky: sorry.. missed articles
[18:02:22] ilya_shaikovsky: :)
[18:02:59] nbelaevski: alexsmirnov: ok, I've found this tutorial http://www.jboss.org/community/wiki/RichFaces400ALPHA1CDKTutorial
[18:03:27] alexsmirnov: http://www.jboss.org/community/wiki/richfaces40componentsdevelopmentkit is architectural guide but http://www.jboss.org/community/wiki/RichFaces400ALPHA1CDKTutorial supposed to be a basic usage tutorial.
[18:03:31] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: I think we need to update existing Ajax4JSF CDK articles to avoid confusion
[18:04:05] ilya_shaikovsky: we just need to split 3.3.x info and 4.x
[18:04:06] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: if you are going to test it, why not add small example?..
[18:04:06] ilya_shaikovsky: ok
[18:04:08] nbelaevski: :)
[18:04:14] lfryc (n=lfryc@nat/redhat/x-repupnndugevcina) Quit [ "Leaving"  ]
[18:04:24] nbelaevski: just an archive with source code
[18:04:33] ilya_shaikovsky: ok
[18:04:51] nbelaevski: you can use RFPL JIRA to track this :)
[18:05:22] nbelaevski: seems we are done with the agenda
[18:05:30] nbelaevski: any questions/concerns?
[18:07:02] nbelaevski: I guess none. ok, thanks everyone
[18:07:03] ilya_shaikovsky: no from my side
[18:07:13] ilya_shaikovsky: see you guys
[18:07:18] nbelaevski: see ya