[16:02:33] ***JOIN TO CHANNEL(06.10.2009 16:02:33)
[16:02:40] Marauder: Hi All guys!
[16:02:40] pyaschenko (n=pasha@195.222.78.122) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[16:02:43] balunasj: Hi all
[16:02:45] Marauder òåïå›ü èçâåñòåí êàê ilya_shaikovsky
[16:02:46] pyaschenko: hi
[16:02:55] balunasj: serogers: thanks for joining us so late :-)
[16:03:01] serogers: Hi everyone :)
[16:03:23] balunasj: serogers: Meaning late in the day for him not late to the meeting :-)
[16:03:31] serogers: :)
[16:03:38] balunasj: So lets get started
[16:03:52] balunasj: serogers: can give a quick overview
[16:04:31] serogers: OK
[16:05:29] serogers: I plan to write four main books, based at least in part on some of the existing books but also drawing in information and details from other sources such as the wiki and other materials
[16:06:05] serogers: The Migration Guide, which covers migrating to 4.0 from earlier versions and highlights installation procedure and differences between versions
[16:06:42] serogers: The Developer Guide, which is similar in scope to the existing one
[16:07:13] serogers: The Component Reference, which will go through each component in the framework and explain its use, purpose and samples
[16:07:37] serogers: and the Component Development Kit Guide, which again is similar to the existing one
[16:08:07] serogers: Things like FAQs will not be made into a formal book but will be maintained on the wiki and forums
[16:08:51] serogers: I hope to get drafts of the books released in conjunction with the alpha and beta releases so the community can give feedback throughout the project
[16:09:18] balunasj: serogers: I really like the idea of breaking out the component guide
[16:09:46] ilya_shaikovsky: me also.. this sounds really good
[16:09:49] serogers: Yes, the Developer Guide will of course reference it, but it will stand alone to act as a go-to reference
[16:10:13] balunasj: serogers: just so I know the component guide will not have full tag listing and API docs - right
[16:10:23] balunasj: serogers: these are for the tld and api to cover and you can reference
[16:10:27] balunasj: from the doc
[16:10:44] serogers: No, the API docs will still exist, the guide I will write will be more at a high level looking at examples and applications
[16:11:14] balunasj: serogers: ok good
[16:11:25] serogers: So a developer can go to the API docs for technical details
[16:11:34] balunasj: so lets talk about the migration guide first
[16:11:42] balunasj: I read through the doc you sent out.
[16:12:12] balunasj: This looks good - the only thing I was thinking was a example application
[16:12:24] balunasj: like the photo album
[16:12:40] balunasj: and show how to move from 3.3.X --> 4.0.0
[16:13:02] serogers: OK, that is a good idea
[16:13:03] balunasj: or perhaps smaller examples?
[16:13:13] serogers: Yes, perhaps smaller ones
[16:13:38] serogers: We need to note all changes and issues the developer may run into
[16:13:42] balunasj: serogers: ilya_shaikovsky : I would like have the examples that we use in the example bundle though
[16:13:56] balunasj: so at some point we'll need to think about that
[16:14:00] amitev: guys, serogers will write a book about richfaces?
[16:14:25] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, I continuing conversation with Tim and we are gets closere to the finishing.
[16:14:34] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, So could be good to use as a sample
[16:14:35] ilya_shaikovsky: for that
[16:14:44] ilya_shaikovsky: closer*
[16:14:55] serogers: Perhaps I can write the basic guide first then we can see if something like the photo album can illustrate all the necessary points
[16:15:37] balunasj: amitev: When serogers refers to "books" it is more like the guides and plans that we already have but updated for 4.0
[16:15:50] amitev: ah
[16:15:55] amitev: the reference docs
[16:15:59] serogers: Yes, sorry I should have explained that
[16:16:05] amitev: okay
[16:16:22] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: that is true and it could
[16:16:50] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: be a good example
[16:16:52] amitev: btw is there a doc/guide/demo about how to create a real pager (fetch only a limited amount of records from the database)
[16:17:02] amitev: this was asked at least 100 times in the forum
[16:17:13] ilya_shaikovsky: amitev, only rf-demo two samples 
[16:18:54] balunasj: amitev: I hear you - I think that could be a good blog topic :-)
[16:19:18] balunasj: all: any other thoughts on the migration guide?
[16:20:25] balunasj: ok then - lets move on to the dev guide then
[16:20:29] ilya_shaikovsky: could be info on some thirdparties dependencies 
[16:20:33] ilya_shaikovsky: which was dropped
[16:20:56] ilya_shaikovsky: as the customers sometimes used JS libraries which were shipped with RF and which will not be a base for 4.x
[16:21:07] ilya_shaikovsky: like prototype for example
[16:21:14] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: good point - one of our goals in 4.0 is to review and limit third party depenecies.
[16:21:34] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: yup I agree - both client and server side dependency changes.
[16:21:41] ilya_shaikovsky: yes
[16:22:10] balunasj: serogers: wdyt?  Can you add that to the migration guide
[16:22:38] serogers: Yes, that can be added. Do we have some existing information about it?
[16:24:04] ilya_shaikovsky: we should add info somewhere about server side. currently we had only requirement documented about clien side third parties
[16:24:31] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: true - this is limited now
[16:24:40] ilya_shaikovsky: that them should be limited to jquerry library and JSF base scripts 
[16:25:33] balunasj: All: I've got to drop offline for about 15 min
[16:25:33] balunasj: :-(
[16:26:09] balunasj: Please continue to discuss the various books and I'll join back asap - and I may join via iphone - so I'll listen in, but typing will be slow
[16:26:25] serogers: OK
[16:26:36] ilya_shaikovsky: so seems that's all about migration.. guys?
[16:26:55] balunasj_ (n=balunasj@pool-74-106-202-161.syrcny.fios.verizon.net) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[16:27:18] serogers: If there is no more on migration let's move on to the Developer Guide
[16:27:25] ilya_shaikovsky: yup
[16:27:26] ppitonak (n=ppitonak@209.132.186.254) âûøåë èç IRC [ Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) ]
[16:27:29] balunasj_: Jay via iPhone :-)
[16:28:30] serogers: The Developer Guide will cover installation, then move on to basics, then to advanced concepts such as optimization and skinning
[16:29:32] serogers: Any questions or concerns?
[16:30:55] ilya_shaikovsky asking for a minute
[16:31:03] ilya_shaikovsky looking
[16:31:25] abelevich__: maybe we should describe maven resource dependency plugin in this book ?
[16:32:23] balunasj__ (n=balunasj@166.137.133.37) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[16:32:40] ilya_shaikovsky: I think "Technical requirements" contains compatibility matrix..? Or it somewhere else?
[16:32:56] balunasj__: Did u guys see my last cmts on dev guide
[16:33:21] balunasj__: Regarding jsf features
[16:33:28] serogers: No
[16:33:44] abelevich__: no
[16:33:54] balunasj__: Ok - minor cmts on dev guide
[16:34:21] balunasj__: Queue a d controlling traffic
[16:35:03] balunasj__: Section on additions to jsf 2 like dynamic resources - not
[16:35:24] balunasj__: All features are component based :-)
[16:36:05] balunasj__: I also agree w ilya regarding compatible matrix
[16:36:35] balunasj__: That's all for right now :-)
[16:37:14] ilya_shaikovsky: Also about architecture
[16:38:09] serogers: There will be a section that goes over the architecture and will explain the compatibility matrix
[16:38:13] ilya_shaikovsky: Maybe we could expland it slightly (not turning into api doc but bacis samples) in order to provide practical info how the customer could deal with AjaxContext or get some usefull info from other object for example 
[16:39:24] ilya_shaikovsky: E.g. some our customers used for example addition of rendered zones by using our framework objects(other ways was unacceptable) but they got info about them just by searching though api-docs
[16:39:38] ilya_shaikovsky: through*
[16:39:48] balunasj__: I think that is another example of non component featues and points
[16:40:57] balunasj__: I think some items like this r big drivers of forum questions
[16:41:02] ilya_shaikovsky: thats all from me currently
[16:41:38] balunasj__: Ok good any other on dev guide?
[16:41:39] ilya_shaikovsky: oh.. b.t.w. just thought about something like "Troubleshooting" section
[16:41:43] rruss (n=rruss@redhat/jboss/rruss) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[16:42:17] balunasj__: Ok so let's move on to component guide
[16:42:27] serogers: I think troubleshooting could be handled on the forums and wiki
[16:42:35] ilya_shaikovsky: just general directions
[16:42:42] ilya_shaikovsky: like described in reference cards
[16:42:50] ilya_shaikovsky: maybe slightly expanded 
[16:42:51] serogers: OK
[16:42:58] balunasj__: I had a couple of thoughts
[16:44:16] balunasj__: I think some areas like trees and drag-n-drop will need more details than just components
[16:44:48] balunasj__: At my JBoss world talk I brought up some items like
[16:45:01] balunasj (n=balunasj@redhat/jboss/balunasj) âûøåë èç IRC [ Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ]
[16:45:16] balunasj__: Expanding nodes and the diff data listeners
[16:46:27] balunasj (n=balunasj@pool-74-106-202-161.syrcny.fios.verizon.net) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[16:46:34] balunasj__ (n=balunasj@redhat/jboss/balunasj) âûøåë èç IRC [ "Rooms  iPhone IRC Client  http://rooms.derflash.de" ]
[16:47:30] balunasj: ok I'm off the iphone and
[16:47:38] balunasj: back online
[16:47:50] balunasj: on my main :-)
[16:48:27] balunasj: So another thought on the component guide is that portal components and support might be a whole separate section
[16:48:54] serogers: OK, that is probably a good way to do it
[16:48:57] balunasj: either dealt with in a separate doc, or perhaps together with the portal doc team.
[16:49:36] balunasj: Alex would have the most input there, but I think he would agree with it being a separate section.
[16:49:59] ilya_shaikovsky: yes.. it sounds good, according to forum guys really missed such information
[16:50:22] balunasj: serogers: Alex will be joining us for our next meeting if you wanted to stay on we could talk about that quick
[16:50:30] serogers: OK
[16:52:05] balunasj: Thats all I had at a high level for component guide - I'm assuming all parts are going to link to API and TLD docs as needed
[16:52:21] pmuir (n=pmuir@redhat/jboss/pmuir) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[16:52:28] balunasj_ (n=balunasj@redhat/jboss/balunasj) âûøåë èç IRC [ Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ]
[16:52:29] serogers: Yes
[16:52:47] balunasj: And we'll point to each section in this doc from the component demo application
[16:53:25] serogers: Yes, agreed
[16:53:30] balunasj: one rule - I would like to see is that the docs NEVER point to forum topics
[16:53:47] serogers: Certainly
[16:53:49] balunasj: There were some places in the 3.3.X docs that point to forum topics
[16:53:58] balunasj: ok good
[16:54:39] balunasj: So lets move on to the CDK quick and then discuss public wiki pages for this stuff :-)
[16:54:55] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: did you have anything else for the component guide?
[16:55:08] ilya_shaikovsky: only about component estimations tables.. 
[16:55:19] ilya_shaikovsky: there seems sync up work required.
[16:55:25] ilya_shaikovsky: it's early to print out the list
[16:55:32] ilya_shaikovsky: and made estimations according to it
[16:55:52] ilya_shaikovsky: and the second.. I had some minor questions on grouping but think it could be discussed offline
[16:56:28] serogers: I grouped them in a way it made sense to me but am happy to discuss it
[16:56:32] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: agreed, but I think this is an early plan.  For example I think some areas will certainly be more than 1 page ;-)
[16:56:52] serogers: Yes, the page estimates are very rough at this stage
[16:57:02] balunasj: serogers, ilya_shaikovsky : ok good lets discuss groupings offline given the time
[16:57:27] ilya_shaikovsky: sure.. it's not hot goal for now and it's late for Sean for specific conversations :)
[16:57:54] balunasj: My only point on the CDK for now is adding packaging information so that users will know how to package
[16:58:02] ppitonak (n=ppitonak@wired-232.fi.muni.cz) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[16:58:10] balunasj: output of CDK into a self contained component module
[16:58:20] serogers: OK
[16:58:23] balunasj: but that is minor for now
[16:58:40] balunasj: I'm assuming this is priority order as well - in the plan that is?
[16:59:28] serogers: Yes, I believe so, though I may swap the order of Developer Guide and Component Guide
[16:59:38] balunasj: ok
[17:00:15] balunasj: so as for public wiki for the plan
[17:00:35] balunasj: as you said offline - most of this stuff can be in the public wiki
[17:00:49] serogers: Yes
[17:01:00] balunasj: I would like to move it there - easier to review and might get some feedback as things move forward
[17:01:36] serogers: OK, I'll do that tomorrow
[17:02:20] balunasj: ok cool - just use the "richfaces" tag and we'll identify a plan to link to it
[17:02:30] balunasj: Likely from the main RF 4.0 planning wiki page
[17:04:02] serogers: No problem
[17:06:02] alexsmirnov (n=asmirnov@adsl-71-132-209-245.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[17:06:48] balunasj: alexsmirnov: Hi Alex
[17:06:56] ilya_shaikovsky: So if we had more questions on the docs?
[17:07:00] ilya_shaikovsky: Hi Alex!
[17:07:00] alexsmirnov: Hi all
[17:07:02] balunasj: we are just wrapping up the document meeting
[17:07:13] abelevich__: hi
[17:07:38] balunasj: alexsmirnov: one of the questions that come up we regarding a separate section in the component guide or the development guide for portal related items.
[17:08:53] ppitonak_ (n=ppitonak@wireless-233.fi.muni.cz) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[17:09:38] balunasj: alexsmirnov: with the bridge is the a4j:portlet still needed
[17:09:39] balunasj: ?
[17:10:03] balunasj: alexsmirnov: just some general thoughts on portlet support and RF 4.0 for the documents?
[17:10:10] alexsmirnov: No, it is obsolete.
[17:10:36] ilya_shaikovsky: It was marked as obsolete in current guide already
[17:10:40] balunasj: alexsmirnov: good that is what I was hoping
[17:11:03] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: ok
[17:11:48] alexsmirnov: Wesley wrote separate  documentation about portletbridge, it is available from project page
[17:12:20] balunasj: so for serogers book you think think he should just reference the portal bridge for portal topics
[17:12:21] balunasj: ?
[17:13:41] alexsmirnov: At least, RichFaces documentation should point out to portletbridge as required to run in portals.
[17:14:08] balunasj: alexsmirnov: ok that sounds good - serogers agree?
[17:14:18] serogers: Yes, that is fine with me
[17:14:25] balunasj: ok good
[17:14:43] balunasj: serogers: I think that was it for doc mtg - anything else?
[17:14:56] serogers: Not that I can think of
[17:15:05] serogers: Do we want to have regular docs meetings?
[17:15:12] balunasj: serogers: ok well thanks for staying up late
[17:15:21] balunasj: serogers: yes I think we should but not weekly
[17:15:32] balunasj: serogers: lets discuss offline and we'll sync up
[17:15:38] serogers: OK, no problem
[17:15:44] serogers: Thanks everyone!
[17:15:46] balunasj: serogers: great thanks
[17:15:49] serogers: Good night :)
[17:15:55] ilya_shaikovsky: and you ;)
[17:16:15] ilya_shaikovsky: Jay let have 5 min break before next topic 
[17:16:29] balunasj: lets move on the data table discussion with abelevich__ ilya_shaikovsky LexD alexsmirnov etc...
[17:16:29] serogers (n=Sean@d122-104-160-145.rdl18.qld.optusnet.com.au) âûøåë èç IRC [  :lets move on the data table discussion with abelevich__ ilya_shaikovsky LexD alexsmirnov etc... ]
[17:16:29] alexsmirnov: serogers: I have just mentioned Jay yesterday about multi-field validation with rich:graphValidator component
[17:16:39] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: ok agreed
[17:16:46] alexsmirnov: 3.3.2.GA has feature does not described yet.
[17:16:50] balunasj: alexsmirnov: doh - you just missed him
[17:16:58] alexsmirnov: I see :-(
[17:17:18] alexsmirnov: Anyway, I'll email him.
[17:17:27] balunasj: alexsmirnov: I suggest an email  - best way to communicate with Australia ;-)
[17:17:32] balunasj: hehe
[17:17:46] balunasj: ok guys 5 min break then we'll come back and talk about the data table model stuff
[17:17:48] balunasj: http://www.jboss.org/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4258713#4258713
[17:17:52] balunasj: ^ for reference
[17:18:17] alexsmirnov: Have you read my post ?
[17:22:04] ilya_shaikovsky: so we are there
[17:22:09] ilya_shaikovsky: yes we do
[17:22:15] abelevich__: yes
[17:22:21] ppitonak (n=ppitonak@wired-232.fi.muni.cz) âûøåë èç IRC [ Read error: 113 (No route to host) ]
[17:23:28] ilya_shaikovsky: alexsmirnov, visual model getting similar to current componentState object isn't it?
[17:23:41] ilya_shaikovsky: according to post.. or I missed something
[17:23:44] ilya_shaikovsky: ?
[17:24:23] balunasj__ (n=balunasj@166.137.133.37) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[17:25:13] alexsmirnov: Yes, it is. The main difference is ability to store it in a bean to keep settings outside of component.
[17:25:42] balunasj__: Unfortunatly I'm offline again and talking via iPhone :-(
[17:27:16] abelevich__: the one thing I couldn't understand when data model and visualModel should interact
[17:27:27] balunasj__: Should be back in a min
[17:29:04] balunasj_ (n=balunasj@pool-74-106-202-161.syrcny.fios.verizon.net) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[17:30:07] balunasj_: alexsmirnov: yup - I saw your post and for the most part agree
[17:30:09] balunasj_: alexsmirnov: but I am still not 100% clear and agree with abelevich__ about the when they interact
[17:30:11] alexsmirnov: abelevich_: Yes, it is unclean for me yet too. Existing implementation has a lack of communication between models. Fo example, selected rows should be cleared if model changes, and model should load different peace of data if component go to different page or filter expression is changed
[17:30:23] ppitonak_ (n=ppitonak@wireless-233.fi.muni.cz) âûøåë èç IRC [ brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net ]
[17:30:23] LexD (n=lex@80.64.107.7) âûøåë èç IRC [ brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net ]
[17:30:32] balunasj_: I do like the idea of separating the data model from the visual model as a concept I think it is just a matter of making it clear and easier for people to understand.
[17:30:41] abelevich__: as I understand on decode we should create visualModel as we did before with the component states and on what phase or in which moment we should apply it values to the underlaying dataModel
[17:31:15] ppitonak_ (n=ppitonak@wireless-233.fi.muni.cz) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[17:31:15] LexD (n=lex@80.64.107.7) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[17:31:34] balunasj__ (n=balunasj@166.137.133.37) âûøåë èç IRC [ "Rooms  iPhone IRC Client  http://rooms.derflash.de" ]
[17:32:18] balunasj_: ilya_shaikovsky: are you back?
[17:32:46] ilya_shaikovsky: yes :) already written between your reconnects :/
[17:32:54] balunasj_: abelevich__: Nick originally came up with this correct?
[17:33:07] balunasj_: ilya_shaikovsky: sorry for missing ;-(
[17:33:26] abelevich__: yes
[17:33:31] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj_, just joking :) sure.. I see the connect problems
[17:33:36] balunasj_: :-)
[17:33:40] balunasj_: ilya_shaikovsky: ^
[17:34:02] balunasj_: abelevich__: How much is this choice effecting dev for A2?
[17:34:33] alexsmirnov: The other option is Presentation Model Pattern http://martinfowler.com/eaaDev/PresentationModel.html , where DataModel wraps application data to provide information for visual representation.
[17:35:12] abelevich__: balanusj: I don't know yet
[17:35:22] balunasj (n=balunasj@redhat/jboss/balunasj) âûøåë èç IRC [ Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ]
[17:35:35] balunasj_: alexsmirnov: ah I remember this from somewhere else
[17:36:00] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj_, So thats right question (about estimations).. as we had no clear and complete vision of implementation we can't start working on estimations and real prototype .. And thats why asked for the meeting
[17:36:27] balunasj_: alexsmirnov: at the end of the day what is visual is what is most important for our needs and that pattern may be a good way to handle this
[17:37:09] balunasj_: ilya_shaikovsky: ok - so without nick ( since this is his idea ) I don't see how we can get a clear/complete vision
[17:37:26] balunasj_: we may need to delay for next week
[17:37:47] balunasj_: from the looks of it we'll have some 3.3.X work ahead of us anyway ( wait for next meeting).
[17:38:15] pmuir (n=pmuir@redhat/jboss/pmuir) âûøåë èç IRC [ "This computer has gone to sleep" ]
[17:38:36] balunasj_: As I said I do like the idea of a visual model, and you should look into the presentation model link that alex pointed out
[17:39:12] balunasj_: What I think we all need is some more details in the forum thread that we can use
[17:39:20] balunasj_: to figure out requirements and behavior
[17:39:26] alexsmirnov: Visual model was I my idea for RichFaces 3 tables and trees, but we see some limitations in the real use cases.
[17:40:05] alexsmirnov: We did not properly design interactios between them.
[17:40:07] balunasj_: abelevich__: is this something you can work on and add some details to?
[17:41:28] balunasj_: alexsmirnov: ok so we'll need to define this better, because at the end of the day we need a clear model for the users.
[17:42:05] balunasj_ knows alexsmirnov knows that :-0
[17:42:06] balunasj_: :-)
[17:42:36] balunasj_: alexsmirnov's priority right now is the client library interop with JSF EG
[17:43:12] balunasj_: so abelevich__ is it possible for you push forward with this with some guidance?
[17:45:33] pmuir (n=pmuir@redhat/jboss/pmuir) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[17:45:38] abelevich__: ok I'll investigate this
[17:45:50] balunasj_: abelevich__: ok thanks
[17:46:23] balunasj_: if it is ok with everyone can we break now until our team meeting in 15 min?
[17:46:38] balunasj_: there are some things I need to wrap up
[17:53:51] [ru]TnT (n=Miranda@80.79.70.138) âûøåë èç IRC [ Remote closed the connection ]
[18:01:15] balunasj_: We'll start the meeting in just one minute
[18:01:56] alexsmirnov: let me prepare a cup of coffe
[18:04:48] prabhat (n=prabhat@nat/redhat/x-ebmdgyswvhkuarst) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[18:09:21] balunasj__ (n=balunasj@166.137.133.37) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[18:09:57] balunasj__: Ok so hopefully I'll be back online soon
[18:10:27] balunasj__: For now I'm back to the iPhone
[18:11:22] balunasj__: So unfortunatly the community found some issues
[18:11:48] balunasj__: Please see the agenda for a listing
[18:13:26] balunasj__: So ilya can u review them since I'm on iPhone
[18:13:28] balunasj__: ?
[18:13:47] prabhat: balunasj_issue with 3.3.2.GA?
[18:14:05] prabhat (n=prabhat@nat/redhat/x-ebmdgyswvhkuarst) âûøåë èç IRC [ brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net ]
[18:14:06] ilya_shaikovsky: Sure 
[18:14:12] balunasj__: Yes
[18:14:20] ilya_shaikovsky: So we had three components issues
[18:14:36] prabhat (n=prabhat@nat/redhat/x-zuicuqlzeaiyyxvj) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[18:14:39] ilya_shaikovsky: RF-7950 RF-7949 RF-7948
[18:15:04] ilya_shaikovsky: And if the issue with modal panel https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RF-7950 probably could have a workaround
[18:15:12] ilya_shaikovsky: of definition the position in application code
[18:15:25] pmuir (n=pmuir@redhat/jboss/pmuir) âûøåë èç IRC [ "This computer has gone to sleep" ]
[18:15:32] ilya_shaikovsky: The issues with table seems showstoppers for me personally
[18:15:33] balunasj (n=balunasj@pool-74-106-202-161.syrcny.fios.verizon.net) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[18:15:59] ilya_shaikovsky: And I believe we should resolve them and have a SR 
[18:16:09] balunasj: The scroll bar missing is a blocker
[18:16:59] balunasj: I'm back online and looking at the jira's now - one min
[18:17:00] ilya_shaikovsky: the second one also because if we will not find workaround - it means application designs getting broken on update
[18:17:01] balunasj__ (n=balunasj@166.137.133.37) âûøåë èç IRC [ "Rooms  iPhone IRC Client  http://rooms.derflash.de" ]
[18:17:11] prabhat notes that extendedDataTable was the first component he has found bug with and it big again :(
[18:17:25] prabhat: big->bit
[18:17:42] balunasj: yup
[18:17:54] LexD (n=lex@80.64.107.7) âûøåë èç IRC [ brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net ]
[18:17:54] ppitonak_ (n=ppitonak@wireless-233.fi.muni.cz) âûøåë èç IRC [ brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net ]
[18:18:01] ppitonak_ (n=ppitonak@wireless-233.fi.muni.cz) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[18:18:01] LexD (n=lex@80.64.107.7) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[18:18:13] ilya_shaikovsky: Alex, b.t.w. I will assign the photoalbum deployment issue to you probably
[18:18:29] ilya_shaikovsky: I mean https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RF-7951
[18:18:56] prabhat: ilya_shaikovsky: not deployed meaning?
[18:19:14] ilya_shaikovsky: there seems 3.3.1 GA build of example
[18:19:19] ilya_shaikovsky: at server currently
[18:19:31] prabhat: ilya_shaikovsky: you mean similar to where live demo is?
[18:19:44] ilya_shaikovsky: prabhat, sorry?
[18:20:16] prabhat: ilya_shaikovsky: by not deployed you mean to maven repo or somewhere else?
[18:20:20] ilya_shaikovsky: So a half of forum messages  today are about extendedDataTable... So seems we should concentrate on it and provide information to users about our plans regarding the issues ASAP
[18:20:36] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: yes
[18:20:40] ilya_shaikovsky: prabhat, no livedemo server were not redeployed with 3.3.2 GA built version
[18:20:47] prabhat: ilya_shaikovsky: ok
[18:21:00] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: at the bottom I'm seeing 3.3.2.GA
[18:21:02] pmuir (n=pmuir@redhat/jboss/pmuir) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[18:21:05] balunasj: svn
[18:21:18] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, I'm about photoalbum
[18:21:29] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: doh - sorry
[18:22:10] balunasj: the doc one is no problem for now - although needs to get fixed eventually
[18:22:19] ilya_shaikovsky: B.t.w. if we will plan now to fix extendedTable I think we could assign somebody also to check if the modal panel behavior could be restored also to be included to SR
[18:22:27] balunasj: you said the modal panel issue has a work around?
[18:22:33] alexsmirnov: ilya_shaikovsky: I deployed richfaces-demo with GA release. There was only one fix for tabPanel since.
[18:22:46] ilya_shaikovsky: alexsmirnov, http://livedemo.exadel.com/photoalbum/
[18:23:21] LexD (n=lex@80.64.107.7) âûøåë èç IRC [ brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net ]
[18:23:21] ppitonak_ (n=ppitonak@wireless-233.fi.muni.cz) âûøåë èç IRC [ brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net ]
[18:23:25] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, I not checked it and anyway the workaround I could try is not convinient to be used and without it exiting application will works wrong
[18:23:36] ppitonak_ (n=ppitonak@wireless-233.fi.muni.cz) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[18:23:36] LexD (n=lex@80.64.107.7) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[18:23:52] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: then I agree - if we can fix this in the SR lets do that
[18:23:55] ilya_shaikovsky: So it would be good to work on modal panel issue in parallel
[18:24:01] ilya_shaikovsky: yes
[18:24:05] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: yes
[18:24:07] balunasj_ (n=balunasj@redhat/jboss/balunasj) âûøåë èç IRC [ Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ]
[18:24:09] prabhat: ilya_shaikovsky: not an excuse but regarding extended data table, I would have to see where and how we missed that..I remember seeing no scrollbar but then I thought it was not there because all data was able to fit in the view
[18:24:48] balunasj: prabhat: my next question was going to be what can we do to not have this slip by in the future
[18:25:43] prabhat: balunasj: more attnetion to details and more familiarity with component
[18:26:03] prabhat: balunasj: this I would say falls under manual verification as well
[18:26:17] balunasj: prabhat: agreed - but also wanted to see if this is something that could even be automated
[18:26:32] balunasj: prabhat: something to review and look into.
[18:26:38] prabhat: balunasj: yup
[18:26:59] balunasj: lets focus on the issues and plan for a SR/SP release paln
[18:27:02] balunasj: plan
[18:27:32] balunasj: so who is the best person to work on the extended data table and get some initial estimates?
[18:28:04] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: pyaschenko : ?
[18:28:14] prabhat: ilya_shaikovsky: you have commented on RF-7948 that "seems issue fix caused this one"..which issue do you mean?
[18:28:23] ilya_shaikovsky: prabhat, actually vertical scrolling is a first class feature from which the component was started and sample was designed in order to show it.. So it seems like a minus while using richfaces-demo for base testing. Using separate application which built for testing purposes specially such questions could not rise beause you know that it designed for testing and have to contains scrolls. And using richfaces-demo there is a place for questions like if it's demo issue or component issue or by design
[18:28:52] ilya_shaikovsky: using richfaces-demo for *manual* base testing.
[18:29:35] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: Ideally I would like to see both - I don't think there is a problem with automating the richfaces-demo
[18:29:54] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: I think the trick is figuring out what requires manual/visual testing.
[18:30:05] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, agree
[18:30:31] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: there are going to be some features that the live demo is not going to be good at testing
[18:30:48] balunasj: that is where I think test applications or other examples
[18:30:48] ilya_shaikovsky: yes.. demo could even hide some problematic moments
[18:30:51] balunasj: come in.
[18:31:32] prabhat: balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky as you said, let's get problems fixed first then we will do the analysis
[18:31:43] balunasj: prabhat: agreed
[18:31:47] ilya_shaikovsky: completelly agree ;)
[18:32:16] balunasj: So first we need someone to investigate and estimate
[18:32:20] balunasj: a solution
[18:32:37] ilya_shaikovsky: So let's assign pyaschenko to the issues as he's the best person to work with scripts/markups problems fast
[18:32:47] pyaschenko: balunasj: I'll do it
[18:32:56] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: you read my mind :-)
[18:32:58] balunasj: pyaschenko: thanks
[18:32:59] ilya_shaikovsky: :)
[18:33:11] abelevich__: :)
[18:33:26] balunasj: please let the mailing list know asap about possible fixes and/or causes
[18:33:43] balunasj: I'm wondering what caused the issue in the first place, but that can wait too
[18:33:51] pietia (n=pietia@ced47.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[18:34:04] balunasj: I will create a 3.3.2.SP1 release in jira and we can assign to this
[18:34:20] ilya_shaikovsky: sounds good
[18:34:50] balunasj: ok so lets focus on that - I think everything else is secondary
[18:35:34] ilya_shaikovsky: I will also look through unsceduled issues... not still done with that.. hope that no new issues which was entered directly without forum post
[18:35:48] balunasj: Lets touch base again later or first thing tomorrow and we'll get some info out to the team.
[18:36:04] balunasj: Yes we need to keep our eyes open for other issues from the community
[18:36:40] balunasj: but I really want to limit what goes into this type of release so it needs to be critical and/or VERY safe fix
[18:36:55] balunasj: I'm about to go offline again so I'll have to catch up in email :-(
[18:37:00] balunasj: Hopefully this is the last time
[18:38:01] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: if the meeting continues can you send me the transcript
[18:38:13] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, ok
[18:38:22] balunasj: gtg - I'm sorry for the early exit
[18:38:47] abelevich__: Jay I have one question ... Have you read my article?
[18:39:39] ilya_shaikovsky: alexsmirnov, so the deployment is not blocker issue but I assigned it to you and probably we could do it after actual fixes of the issues
[18:42:27] alexsmirnov:  Ok, I thought that photoalbum is going to Jboss server.
[18:44:40] ppitonak_ (n=ppitonak@wireless-233.fi.muni.cz) âûøåë èç IRC [ Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ]
[18:45:50] ppitonak_ (n=ppitonak@wireless-233.fi.muni.cz) ï›èñîåäèíèëñÿ ê #richfaces
[18:46:20] ilya_shaikovsky: alexsmirnov, yes, we missed seems to highlight that in meeting minutes.. we talked about the fact that demos will be deployed to jboss starting from 4.x
[18:49:28] ppitonak_ (n=ppitonak@wireless-233.fi.muni.cz) âûøåë èç IRC [ Remote closed the connection ]
[18:52:07] alexsmirnov: Ok, I'm going to office. Does anyone have any questions ?
[18:53:20] abelevich__: alex maybe you have reviewed "how to build article" ?
[18:53:35] abelevich__: :)
[18:54:34] alexsmirnov: abelevich__:Do you mean build machine in concord office ?
[18:56:04] abelevich__: no I mean email with article what I sent on Friday
[18:56:25] balunasj (n=balunasj@redhat/jboss/balunasj) âûøåë èç IRC [ Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ]
[18:56:39] ilya_shaikovsky: Guys..; I'll also will be away and will connect soon from home
[18:57:25] alexsmirnov: abelevich__:  oops... I could delete that. Can you resend it to me ?
[18:57:46] abelevich__: ok :)