balunasj
:
We have a hard stop for todays meeting for a couple of reasons so lets get started.
[
10:00am
]
balunasj
:
First here is the main page for these meeting - http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces400ALPHA2Meetings-January2010
[
10:01am
]
balunasj
:
Second I wanted to outline my agenda for this meeting specifically
[
10:01am
]
balunasj
:
The main purpose of this meeting is not to analyze all of the status updates and documents
[
10:02am
]
balunasj
:
It is to identify areas of the status that need more information
[
10:02am
]
balunasj
:
and lay the ground work for the more detailed planning meetings next week.
[
10:03am
]
balunasj
:
So I would like to look at each of the different status pages, talk about what more might be needed, and move on.
[
10:03am
]
balunasj
:
I would like to avoid doing a "deep dive" into any specific part at this point.
[
10:03am
]
balunasj
:
The for the last 10 minutes we'll discuss the meetings next week.
[
10:04am
]
balunasj
:
Anyone have anything to add, or comment on with the plan for todays meeting?
[
10:05am
]
balunasj
:
ok good - lets start with the CDK.
[
10:05am
]
balunasj
:
http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2CDKStatus
[
10:07am
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: should we add archetypes to this - or keep them seperate?
[
10:09am
]
alexsmirnov
:
balunasj: Yes, archetypes should be on list; thought they are not at the high priority for Alpha.
[
10:09am
]
nbelaevski
:
alexsmirnov: should we add aliases for legacy attributes to A2 scope?
[
10:10am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: alexsmirnov: or later?...
[
10:10am
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: ok, but I think they are for BETA1 because at that point we want to start having people use it.
[
10:10am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: I think for ALPHA the focus is on new stuff
[
10:11am
]
balunasj
:
BETA's will start to require move of this legacy support
[
10:11am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: ok
[
10:11am
]
balunasj
:
although it should be considered now imo
[
10:11am
]
balunasj
:
considered == kept in mind during design but not implemented
[
10:12am
]
balunasj
:
do you think that the migration of current A1 component to CDK should be part of CDK or components
[
10:12am
]
•
balunasj
 
I think components, but would be good for testing functionality.
[
10:13am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: I agree with you Jay
[
10:13am
]
alexsmirnov
:
nbelaevski: legacy attributes would be defined as "aliases" for new ones, so they seem more like comonents configuration task.
[
10:13am
]
balunasj
:
we'll also need an update to the tutorial, but that is lower priority for now.
[
10:13am
]
nbelaevski
:
alexsmirnov: true
[
10:14am
]
balunasj
:
I would also want to make sure that we do not use these legacy ones for any new components
[
10:14am
]
balunasj
:
i.e that should be part of the migration plan
[
10:14am
]
•
balunasj
 
noted....
[
10:15am
]
balunasj
:
I think requirements for ALPHA2 can be summaries as what ever is needed for the components we plan to migrate.  However that will need to be defined more.
[
10:16am
]
balunasj
:
we should move on to the status - overall this is good, and I like the links to more info.
[
10:17am
]
balunasj
:
Please fill out the requirements part as much as possible - it might need to wait for further talk from other areas.
[
10:17am
]
balunasj
:
all: note just because we move on please continue to review and make comments were you think things are needed.
[
10:17am
]
balunasj
:
http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2ClientLibStatus
[
10:18am
]
struberg joined the chat room.
[
10:18am
]
balunasj
:
pyaschenko1, and nbelaevski : how much will interop requirements make it into this release?
[
10:19am
]
balunasj
:
do we want to start to approach this or test this for ALPHA2 or wait for B1?
[
10:19am
]
nbelaevski
:
we are building over Mojarra's AJAX, so interop should be ok
[
10:20am
]
struberg
:
if I'm using richfaces-3.3.3, it seems that <error-page> in web.xml is not working. Who is handling this?
[
10:20am
]
balunasj
:
great
[
10:20am
]
balunasj
:
Hi struberg
[
10:20am
]
balunasj
:
we are in the middle of a meeting atm - can we talk after in about 40 min?
[
10:20am
]
balunasj
:
struberg: or you can post to the forums
[
10:20am
]
struberg
:
kk sorry
[
10:20am
]
nbelaevski
:
I think we need some system of base classes for JS, so that building components is even much easier
[
10:20am
]
balunasj
:
np
[
10:20am
]
balunasj
:
struberg: ^
[
10:21am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: agreed, is that what you mean with the oop ?
[
10:21am
]
nbelaevski
:
no, OOP = Object Oriented Programming
[
10:21am
]
balunasj
:
sure
[
10:21am
]
nbelaevski
:
in this case
[
10:22am
]
balunasj
:
but from the topic it seemed like you meant to use something like that as the core to build around
[
10:22am
]
nbelaevski
:
it's under question yet... I rely on Pavel for this
[
10:23am
]
nbelaevski
:
one library of behavioral classes, like D'n'D support, another (OOP) to wire this together in components code
[
10:23am
]
balunasj
:
We certainly want to standardize on a single JS core lib - but you are talking about a wrapper to that with our own core API
[
10:24am
]
balunasj
:
just so we can move on I would say to write it up in more detail and we can discuss during next weeks meetings
[
10:24am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: IMO, this makes sense for easier migration
[
10:24am
]
balunasj
:
it certainly sounds like a good approach
[
10:25am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: events inified API is an example of such approach - jQuery already have events
[
10:25am
]
balunasj
:
in some ways I would like to see API/Impl be independent of component set as much as possible.
[
10:25am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: but abstraction API also makes sense for this
[
10:25am
]
balunasj
:
i.e I would not want d-n-d code in impl
[
10:25am
]
balunasj
:
agreed
[
10:25am
]
balunasj
:
and this would help that goal
[
10:26am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: that needs to be discussed I think
[
10:26am
]
alexsmirnov
:
balunasj: In addition, we need a single JS utilities project. In the 3.x, a lot of components duplicate similar methods in different ways that makes whole library huge.
[
10:26am
]
nbelaevski
:
d-n-d code in impl will allow external developers to reuse it easier
[
10:26am
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: agreed!!! and that should be in impl for sure.
[
10:27am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: I see your point but I'm not convinced it is worth it.  Perhaps something like a UI-core lib - but we should self this for now.
[
10:28am
]
balunasj
:
Should add status/plan for client side unit testing.
[
10:28am
]
balunasj
:
i.e. JS unit testing
[
10:28am
]
balunasj
:
status could be "we won't do it", but I think it should be addressed.
[
10:28am
]
nbelaevski
:
A1 code is unit tested already... the same should be done for A2
[
10:29am
]
balunasj
:
JS unit tested?  or just the java code?
[
10:29am
]
nbelaevski
:
JS
[
10:29am
]
nbelaevski
:
i'll add this to reqs
[
10:29am
]
balunasj
:
ok cool
[
10:29am
]
balunasj
:
ok lets move on
[
10:29am
]
balunasj
:
we need to move pretty quick because there is a lot to cover
[
10:30am
]
balunasj
:
http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2CoreFrameworkFeaturesStatus
[
10:31am
]
balunasj
:
I agree with the requirements for this.
[
10:31am
]
balunasj
:
are these longer term tasks for A2?
[
10:31am
]
balunasj
:
I know some are
[
10:32am
]
nbelaevski
:
that's what in our JIRA for now
[
10:32am
]
balunasj
:
ok
[
10:32am
]
balunasj
:
and them skinning support - I know it is in discussion
[
10:33am
]
balunasj
:
we can talk more about this when we get to the skinning status
[
10:33am
]
nbelaevski
:
right
[
10:33am
]
balunasj
:
otherwise look good for now.  Mostly this is for support of other modules.
[
10:33am
]
balunasj
:
Moving on to http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2ComponentMigrationPlanStatus
[
10:34am
]
balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: I think that we need to split this up
[
10:34am
]
balunasj
:
Have this topic be for migration process, lifecycle
[
10:35am
]
balunasj
:
and move the priority and component listing to the http://community.jboss.org/docs/DOC-14602
[
10:35am
]
balunasj
:
wdyt?
[
10:35am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
ok.. got it and agree
[
10:35am
]
balunasj
:
ok once we split it up we'll update this one and describe the migration and work flow plan.
[
10:36am
]
balunasj
:
including things like what we discussed above about the CDK and legacy stuff.
[
10:37am
]
balunasj
:
for http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2ComponentImplementationStatus
[
10:37am
]
balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: Most of this is covered in the wiki page you linked to so we don't need much in this status page - agree?
[
10:38am
]
balunasj
:
and in the previous status page we just talked about
[
10:38am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
yes thats why this page was filled with not much info during writing (just dev jiras links)
[
10:38am
]
balunasj
:
sure - ok
[
10:39am
]
balunasj
:
so we'll just shift some of the content and this one will be good
[
10:39am
]
balunasj
:
lets move on to the iteration component
[
10:39am
]
balunasj
:
http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2IterationComponentStatus
[
10:40am
]
balunasj
:
abelevich: Assuming the requirements are the same as the estimate section right?
[
10:40am
]
balunasj
:
good status though
[
10:40am
]
nbelaevski
:
abelevich: estimates are for you both together (time-based) or in men-days?
[
10:41am
]
abelevich
:
nbelaevski: man-day
[
10:41am
]
nbelaevski
:
abelevich: ok
[
10:41am
]
abelevich
:
balunasj: yes
[
10:41am
]
balunasj
:
ok good
[
10:42am
]
balunasj
:
I'm rushing at this point because I want to have time to discuss meetings next week so....
[
10:42am
]
balunasj
:
http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2QueueStatus
[
10:42am
]
balunasj
:
looks like a good status
[
10:42am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski brings up a good point estimates should be in man-days
[
10:43am
]
balunasj
:
we can skip semantic markup - I'll talk with Lex offline
[
10:43am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: Pavel and me used exactly such
[
10:43am
]
balunasj
:
+1
[
10:43am
]
balunasj
:
so next is http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2AssemblyBuildDistributionStatus
[
10:44am
]
balunasj
:
Alex K and I updated this and there is still more details needed.
[
10:44am
]
balunasj
:
It does outline of of the important features before BETA1
[
10:44am
]
balunasj
:
Starting with BETA1 we need to support time-boxed releases
[
10:45am
]
balunasj
:
regular short releases - functionality either makes it in for a release or it goes in the next one.
[
10:45am
]
balunasj
:
The assembly code is critical in supporting this so that we don't need to waste dev time on distribution creation and management
[
10:45am
]
balunasj
:
the idea is going to be to have this on hudson and hosted there.
[
10:46am
]
nbelaevski
:
really cool
[
10:46am
]
balunasj
:
we are also going to be reviewing plugins, seam3/weld builds, and others for this plan.  Unfortunatly this has not gotten the attention it needs
[
10:47am
]
balunasj
:
I plan on freeing up some of my time to help here
[
10:47am
]
balunasj
:
prabhat: qe status page is not updated - so we'll skip
[
10:48am
]
balunasj
:
even if it is just links to an existing plan please update for next week
[
10:48am
]
prabhat
:
balunasj: were you waiting on me this to be updatede for  this meeting?
[
10:48am
]
balunasj
:
prabhat: the same as the others enough of an outline so that we could review and be ready to hit the ground running next week.
[
10:48am
]
prabhat
:
balunasj: ok
[
10:48am
]
balunasj
:
thanks
[
10:49am
]
balunasj
:
I talked with sean this morning about doc plan
[
10:49am
]
prabhat
:
balunasj: i saw that
[
10:49am
]
balunasj
:
he is going to update, and we are going to have a 4.0 doc meeting next week so that he can attend
[
10:50am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: BTW, we've put components' documentation into reqs for A2
[
10:50am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: people are asking it for A1
[
10:50am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: yes, at least at a basic level - i.e. perhaps not polished
[
10:51am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: ok
[
10:51am
]
balunasj
:
please add to the doc status so sean knows as he is writing
[
10:51am
]
balunasj
:
he said he will have some for review soon.
[
10:51am
]
nbelaevski
:
great
[
10:51am
]
balunasj
:
for the component gallery I think we need to discuss more - and define clear goals for this.
[
10:51am
]
balunasj
:
I think nbelaevski and I need to talk more first
[
10:51am
]
balunasj
:
so the last one is skinning
[
10:52am
]
balunasj
:
my big comment here is that we need to get the details out in the wiki/forum for open discussion.
[
10:52am
]
nbelaevski
:
agree
[
10:53am
]
nbelaevski
:
amarkhel: Andrei, please add this to the nearest tasks
[
10:53am
]
balunasj
:
so first task should be to create an article to describe plan, goals, and impl concerns.  then we'll all review - I know this effects a lot of people and components.
[
10:53am
]
balunasj
:
ok so we need to move on to talk bout the meetings
[
10:53am
]
Konstantin left the chat room. (Remote closed the connection)
[
10:53am
]
balunasj
:
Because of timezone we have limited overlap for some areas
[
10:54am
]
amarkhel
:
nbelaevski:ok
[
10:54am
]
balunasj
:
so we'll need to figure out what part require everyone to be present, and what parts can be discussed
[
10:54am
]
balunasj
:
at slightly off hours.
[
10:54am
]
balunasj
:
For example 10:00 AM EST is 7:00AM PST - about the earliest I want to ask Alex to get up
[
10:55am
]
balunasj
:
Plus later than 1-2 PM EST is getting pretty late in minsk.
[
10:55am
]
balunasj
:
plus obviously some people work shifted hours ( like you night people -you know who you are
[
10:56am
]
Konstantin joined the chat room.
[
10:56am
]
alexsmirnov
:
balunasj: I'm early bird, so 7 or even 6 AM is well for me. Don't hesitate about meeting time.
[
10:56am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: alexsmirnov ilya_shaikovsky : I think the four of us should break up the meetings into areas for everyone and others for off hour talks
[
10:56am
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: me too, thanks for being flexible with that.
[
10:57am
]
balunasj
:
that will help.
[
10:57am
]
balunasj
:
so my last question with meetings - should be set specific times for specific topics - i.e. this hour is CDK, the hour is Client lib?
[
10:58am
]
balunasj
:
might help with having people engaged for areas that directly effect them
[
10:58am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
late meetings also ok as for me.. it's needed not too often
[
10:58am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: we already have initial breakage by person
[
10:58am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: so you think breaking up the meeting by topic would be good?
[
10:58am
]
nbelaevski
:
yes
[
10:59am
]
balunasj
:
me too - might also help to keep comments focused.
[
10:59am
]
•
nbelaevski
 
thinks certain time will help us focus
[
10:59am
]
balunasj
:
ok then - this has been a lightning meeting, but we covered a lot of good stuff.
[
10:59am
]
balunasj
:
I'll set up meetings, and discuss with team as needed
[
11:00am
]
balunasj
:
on schedules
[
11:00am
]
balunasj
:
Please continue to update your status areas based on comments here, or
[
11:00am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: any action items to follow up before targeted meetings?
[
11:00am
]
balunasj
:
just further investigation
[
11:00am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: JIRA items, estimating?...
[
11:01am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: getting there ...
[
11:01am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: thanks
[
11:01am
]
balunasj
:
Add jira's for items that are not covered yet
[
11:01am
]
balunasj
:
take some time and estimate out as much as possible.
[
11:02am
]
balunasj
:
and please read the other status reports and comment so that
[
11:02am
]
balunasj
:
we can all take part in these meetings and be ready to go.
[
11:02am
]
balunasj
:
By the end of next week I hope to be able to plan out release dates, and write up a blog for ALPHA2
[
11:02am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: did that cover it
[
11:03am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: yup, thanks
[
11:03am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: just giving you a hard time
[
11:03am
]
balunasj
:
ok guys thanks again, and we'll talk next week.