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09:00am
]
balunasj
:
Hi All
[
09:00am
]
balunasj
:
We are going to start today following this schedule - http://community.jboss.org/wiki/400ALPHA2MeetingScheduleJanuary2010
[
09:01am
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balunasj
:
We'll give some people a couple of minutes to join and then we'll get started
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09:05am
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pmuir joined the chat room.
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09:06am
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balunasj
:
ok all lets get started
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09:07am
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balunasj
:
obviously we have a lot of meeting this week, and we other priorities as well.
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09:07am
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balunasj
:
When ever possible I would like people to follow along and/or comment - but if there are other tasks needed to be done ( 3.3.3 release, etc... )  and you are directly part of the current topic
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09:08am
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balunasj
:
feel free to drop off.
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09:08am
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balunasj
:
we've broken the meetings up into sections.
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09:09am
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balunasj
:
We're going to start with component specific related topics, and then move into assembly, core, cdk, topics later
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09:09am
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balunasj
:
in the week followed by docs, qe, and then final release planning next week ( could not fit it in this week ).
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09:09am
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balunasj
:
So lets get started
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09:09am
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balunasj
:
The first topics is component priorities and plans for 4.0.
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09:10am
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balunasj
:
and any updates, changes, etc... that are needed
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09:10am
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balunasj
:
http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2ComponentImplementationStatus#cf
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09:10am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
I moved all the info(most related to requrements docs and discussions) from migration to components impl
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09:10am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: great I saw that, and have been looking through it.
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09:10am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: since you are most familiar atm
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09:11am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: and so I don't do all the typing ( my fingers cramp
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09:11am
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balunasj
:
can you start this off and review what is need, and go over the initial topics?
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09:12am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
sure
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09:13am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
b.t.w.  we have two types of documents started there
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09:13am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
some related to A2 (queues, core components which planned to A2) and the other related to future components but which discussions or design already started
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09:14am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
Core components(except queue) documenting almost complete, now only a4j:param and functions missed in documents
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09:15am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
queue state is worth
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09:15am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
the problems:
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09:15am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
we had few discussions and documents but has no one clean doc with all this gathered
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09:15am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
so it's need to be created
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09:16am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: agreed
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09:16am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
and attachQueue tag also to be described
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09:16am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
and timing for things are:
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09:17am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
core components - to finalize the document and made it up to date I think need 2-3 days as already written at wiki
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09:18am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
and queue - as you remember we still had some questions at last meeting, so I need 2-3 days to prepare and approve new unified page for 4.x queue and then if some questions will still there we need to return to discussion alltogether
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09:19am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
thats why I written ~5 days estimation on that
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09:19am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: for the queue we have a whol hour dedicated to it tomorrow morning.
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09:19am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: just like we'll cover iteration components in detail next hour.
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09:20am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
ok sure
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09:20am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: I agree with centralizing the component priorities and plans in two places.
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09:21am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
so then as I said all the other core components seems looks pretty fine and clean to finish implementation and descriptions, nbelaevski, remember me if I forgot something important..
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09:21am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: one is a full table of all RF 3.3.X components with jira, links to discussion, and release plan just like started here.
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09:21am
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balunasj
:
http://community.jboss.org/wiki/PrioritizedlistofRichFacescomponentsimplementationin4x
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09:21am
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nbelaevski
:
ilya_shaikovsky: a4j:apply?..
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09:22am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: just writing that one
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09:22am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
yes need to add this to jira core components list
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09:22am
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nbelaevski
:
ilya_shaikovsky: "...now only a4j:param and functions missed in documents" - what about rich:message(s)?
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09:22am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
messages present there
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09:23am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: do you think it best to review the current jira's listed?
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09:23am
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balunasj
:
just as components left from A1 - https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RF-7642
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09:24am
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balunasj
:
and new list of features here - https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RF-7816
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09:24am
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balunasj
:
Plus a listing of other component to be migrated for A2.
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09:24am
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balunasj
:
I'm not sure we'll have time for too many more component for A2 after that.
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09:25am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: are you refering to this jira https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RF-7642 with the component list obove?
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09:25am
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balunasj
:
above.
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09:26am
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nbelaevski
:
it's missing some components like a4j:apply
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09:26am
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balunasj
:
agree
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09:26am
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nbelaevski
:
for the components existing in 3.3.x it should be actual
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09:27am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
nbelaevski, I would say not "some" but "just" a4j:apply.. or we want to add more components to A2 except these + tables + queue
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09:27am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
I wil create subtask for apply
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09:28am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
created
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09:28am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: what of the work Lex has done with tabs, and others - those are scheduled for B2+ correct?
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09:29am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
I believe yes..
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09:29am
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balunasj
:
Given we also need to migrate all of these to CDK
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09:29am
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balunasj
:
+ features in other jira above
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09:29am
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balunasj
:
I think time will be tight.
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09:29am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
I believe we need to release core components to push them to community and then continue work.. and not to add any other components to this release
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09:30am
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nbelaevski
:
for A2 this is correct, but some components from a4j are missing (like a4j:include)
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09:30am
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balunasj
:
One requirement I would like for A2 though is that we have at least one example of a "rich" component moving through the lifecycle/migration.
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09:30am
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nbelaevski
:
I agree with ilya_shaikovsky
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09:30am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
balunasj, it will be tables
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09:30am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: we'll have tables
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09:30am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
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09:31am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
really good "rich" components sample i think
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09:31am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: my only concern there is that is almost of rewrite, and not so much a migration.
[
09:31am
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balunasj
:
i.e input slider is a basic rich component that other could use as a guide for migration.
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09:32am
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balunasj
:
the lifecycle of the table development has been more of a overhaul.
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09:32am
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•
ilya_shaikovsky
 
get the idea
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09:32am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
hmm
[
09:32am
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balunasj
:
However something like what I am talking about may be needed while we develop the process for migration anyway.
[
09:33am
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balunasj
:
i.e. who ever creates the process ( one of us most likely ) should probably
[
09:33am
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balunasj
:
use a simple example to verify the process - so that may be part of the migration instructions.
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09:33am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: we can migrate simpler components (with less custom code) like rich:gmap/rich:virtualEarth/rich:effect/rich;jQuery
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09:34am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
as we migrate to single jQuerry as a base framework and taking into consideration semantic markups plans - almost any component will be "rewriten" and not just migrated.. and only simplest like nbelaevski stated could be just migrated..
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09:34am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: or do the migration using CDK documentation example
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09:35am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
nbelaevski, panels could be migrated
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09:35am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: true, but but do you agree there should be a process to the move.
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09:35am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
sure
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09:35am
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balunasj
:
i.e. create directory in ui sandbox
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09:35am
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balunasj
:
Work with lex on semantic markup
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09:36am
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balunasj
:
migrate to new CDK annotation
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09:36am
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balunasj
:
etc...
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09:36am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: update reqs...
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09:36am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: you mean as part of these steps?
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09:36am
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nbelaevski
:
yes
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09:36am
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balunasj
:
sure agreed
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09:37am
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balunasj
:
we are moving into the migration topic a bit too much.
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09:37am
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balunasj
:
lets get back to component lists and plans
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09:37am
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balunasj
:
we'll discuss migration tomorrow
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09:37am
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balunasj
:
So we are all on the same page
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09:37am
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balunasj
:
:
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09:37am
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nbelaevski
:
I've posted estimates for migration tasks
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09:37am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
b.t.w. I believe that rich:panel could be simple one and may even be included to A2.. it's already has semantic markup and it's really simple to migrate.. so we could made simple write up on moving
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09:38am
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nbelaevski
:
ilya_shaikovsky: aren't we going to make it composite component?...
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09:38am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: that is good - please add that as a comment to the migration wiki for discussion
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09:38am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
nbelaevski, we will discuss
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09:38am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
balunasj, ok
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09:38am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: where were the update for the migration tasks - in the wiki page
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09:39am
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balunasj
:
looking....
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09:39am
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nbelaevski
:
ilya_shaikovsky: Sergey Smirnov has posted articles on how to make rich:panel a composite component - so we should probably select something else...
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09:40am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: you are referring to his blog on in.relation.to?
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09:40am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: yes
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09:40am
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balunasj
:
ok
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09:40am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
nbelaevski, IT's cool for application level, but if we would include this into our library - it will a good and simple of the process
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09:42am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky : on a related note alex and I were discussing the CDK and composite components.
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09:42am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
nbelaevski, but I also think that gmap or effect is good candidates for the migration writeup..
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09:42am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: we already have some simple components migrated - like a4j:commandLink or a4j:push - why not take it?..
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09:42am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
I commented the wiki on migration with that
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09:43am
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balunasj
:
we were discussing that it would be good if the CDK could take a composite component and "compile" it into an actual component to increase speed, etc...  rich:panel might be a good example for that from the sounds of it.
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09:44am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: sure those are good ideas for migration - again lets get back to component priority and plans - we can discuss migration examples tomorrow.
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09:45am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: I saw you estimates on the wiki page - I'm looking more now
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09:45am
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balunasj
:
wanted to make sure we are all on the same page
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09:45am
]
balunasj
:
for ALPHA2 we will have the following components, give or take a migration example :
[
09:45am
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balunasj
:
https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RF-7642
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09:45am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: I think we need to be 100% sure that such compilation increases speed significantly
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09:46am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
yes.. so returning to list.. (and not talking about tables and queue )..  do we need to include "a4j:include" that Nick catched as missed into list as it's a core component?
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09:46am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: composite components may include another components with their own handling for tags etc.
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09:46am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: agree and would need to compare - again the rich:panel might be a good one to start with, but alex should be part of that as well.
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09:46am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: agree
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09:46am
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nbelaevski
:
ilya_shaikovsky: http://docs.jboss.org/richfaces/3.3.1.GA/en/tlddoc/a4j/tld-summary.html
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09:46am
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balunasj
:
+ queue
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09:47am
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balunasj
:
+ table
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09:47am
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balunasj
:
are the targets for A2
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09:47am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: correct?
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09:47am
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nbelaevski
:
ilya_shaikovsky: there are also form & keepAlive
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09:47am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
balunasj, yes
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09:47am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
nbelaevski, not agree right now
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09:48am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
keepAlive - @viewScope
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09:48am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
form - no so critical need in form as its original features (ajaxSubmit and conditional links rendering) targeted with JSF 2 itself I believe
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09:50am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: can you explain the form part a little more - I think there is a history there from before my joining team?
[
09:51am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
form had two major features - to add ajax functionality to standard and third party components which had no ajax capabilities and where support could not used to add it (just standard submit used in components itself)
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09:52am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
and the second one is
[
09:52am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
conditionally rendered links not worked in JSF 1.2 because form had no input hiddens for the links which are not rendered
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09:52am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
so when links updated - hiddens was not added because only links was reRendered and for not
[
09:53am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: do we know that JSF2 addressed these?
[
09:54am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: sorry Jay, Ilya has just got BSOD
[
09:54am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: what are your thoughts on keepalive, and @viewscope - are they "="
[
09:54am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: he will be back with us soon
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09:54am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: "BSOD"?
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09:54am
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balunasj
:
never mind
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09:54am
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abelevich
:
Blue Screen Of Death
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09:54am
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balunasj
:
just figured it out
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09:54am
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abelevich
:
I think ^)
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09:55am
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balunasj
:
yup
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09:55am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: alsmost identical
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09:55am
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balunasj
:
at least on a mac it is a semi transparent screen of death STSOD
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09:55am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: ok
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09:55am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: keepAlive allowed to specify "ajaxOnly" attribute but it's a small feature
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09:56am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: so lets not add it for right now
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09:56am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: ok
[
09:56am
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balunasj
:
Migrate A1 components to new CDK - 5 days
[
09:57am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: I saw this on the wiki
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09:57am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: yes
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09:57am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: I've put some time for risks there
[
09:57am
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balunasj
:
to me that seems a little low because of the questions with CDK features that might be needed.
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09:57am
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balunasj
:
ok
[
09:58am
]
•
balunasj
 
need to spend more time with 4.0 cdk
[
09:58am
]
•
balunasj
 
thinking ^
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09:59am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: basic annotations are necessary, nothing really complex
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09:59am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: ok
[
09:59am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: what about the "a4j:include"
[
09:59am
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balunasj
:
what are your thoughts on that?
[
10:00am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: I need more time to look at this
[
10:00am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: Facelets are now internal API, so this may be a risk
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10:01am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: me too, when ilya comes back I lets find out what he was thinking
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10:01am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: you mean just not needed any more because of the facelets support
[
10:01am
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balunasj
:
it does seem similar, but I guess was more useful with JSP any way
[
10:01am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj; Ilya thinks this should be after A2
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10:02am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: it allows internal navigation by AJAX
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10:03am
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balunasj
:
ok
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10:03am
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balunasj
:
that is fine
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10:03am
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balunasj
:
I don't want to add anything else for A2
[
10:03am
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balunasj
:
unless it is critical for the core component set
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10:03am
]
•
nbelaevski
 
& Ilya agree
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10:03am
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balunasj
:
or related to table
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10:04am
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balunasj
:
ok so based on the estimates on the page and can work on the scheduling at the end of the week.
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10:04am
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nbelaevski
:
yes
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10:05am
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balunasj
:
are there any changes or updates here that will effect required CDK, core functioanlity that we should note for later meetings?
[
10:05am
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clerum joined the chat room.
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10:05am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: no, nothing special
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10:06am
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balunasj
:
ok did not look like it to me, but you have deeper insite.
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10:06am
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balunasj
:
abelevich: nbelaevski : lets take a 5 minutes break
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10:06am
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balunasj
:
and then comeback and focus on iteration component
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10:06am
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balunasj
:
s
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10:06am
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balunasj
:
for rest of time
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10:07am
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Marauder joined the chat room.
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10:07am
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Marauder
:
returned
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10:08am
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balunasj
:
Marauder: we are going to take a 5 min break then focus on iteration components
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10:08am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: ok
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10:08am
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balunasj
:
Marauder: we also assigned everything to you while you were out
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10:08am
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Marauder
:
ok.. saw at Nick's screen
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10:08am
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•
Marauder
 
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10:08am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: doh - can't play jokes on Marauder if he is watching on your screen
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10:08am
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Marauder
:
my PC added much work to me
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10:08am
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Marauder
:
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10:09am
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balunasj
:
Marauder: I'll be posting transcripts ( no minutes ) for these meeting anyway for later review.