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09:02am
]
balunasj
:
The first thing we are going to discuss is assembly http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2AssemblyBuildDistributionStatus
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09:02am
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balunasj
:
lets give some extra time for people to join
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09:02am
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abelevich
:
hi all
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09:03am
]
|nbelaevski|
:
hello
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09:03am
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|nbelaevski| is now known as nbelaevski.
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09:03am
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balunasj
:
Hi
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09:04am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: does the "|" have a meaning I'm not familair with?
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09:04am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
balunasj, just asked the same
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09:04am
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balunasj
:
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09:04am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: probably, I'll take a look at IRC client help
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09:05am
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balunasj
:
oh - you are not setting them?
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09:05am
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abelevich
:
))
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09:05am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: no
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09:05am
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balunasj
:
I think we enough people ot start the talk on assembly
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09:06am
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balunasj
:
while freenode is working
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09:06am
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balunasj
:
for those of you at the doc meeting it was painful and people were dropping on/off all the time.
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09:06am
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balunasj
:
so I'll kick off the assembly topic
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09:07am
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balunasj
:
From A1 to now the only real change has been the addition of the checkstyle plugin and enforcement
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09:07am
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balunasj
:
However one of the key requirements of A2 is that we have an assembly and distribution that support automated time-boxed releases.
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09:07am
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balunasj
:
So I think there is a lot that needs to be done in this area.
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09:08am
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balunasj
:
I have updated the status page with some of the near term tasks
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09:08am
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balunasj
:
and some of the requirements for A2.
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09:09am
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balunasj
:
The first step is going to be to creating a set of jira's to track these tasks in more detail.
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09:10am
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balunasj
:
Then I personally need to do a full review of the current build structure, and assembly.
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09:10am
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alexsmirnov joined the chat room.
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09:11am
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balunasj
:
Pete, Dan and I have talked about some of the different build items and I also need to review the weld and seam builds since they have some of the same requirements
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09:11am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: here is my concern - I need to have someone else work this with me.  My time gets stretched badly at times.
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09:12am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: we agreed this will be Alex K.
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09:12am
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balunasj
:
I want to make sure that work can continue even if I end up off track for this.
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09:12am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: yes, wanted to make sure that still would work in your mind.
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09:13am
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balunasj
:
good news is that we also just hired someone from sonatype
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09:13am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: yes
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09:13am
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balunasj
:
that may be able to spend some time reviewing plans and ideas.
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09:13am
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balunasj
:
I still need to follow up on that.
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09:13am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: great!
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09:14am
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balunasj
:
but that would be good considering for those that do not know - sonatype are the maintainers of Maven for the most part
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09:15am
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balunasj
:
So with this in mind for an outline I would like to discuss some of the ideas and break down the requirements a bit.
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09:15am
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balunasj
:
also get any comments or questions on the table
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09:16am
]
•
balunasj
 
one min looking at something quick
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09:17am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: what is the http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/richfaces/root/DEADJOE file?
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09:17am
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balunasj
:
should it be commited to svn?
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09:18am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: no, it's a dump of Joe's editor
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09:18am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: good I did not think so
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09:19am
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balunasj
:
so some things I wanted to discuss:
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09:19am
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balunasj
:
1) structure of final dist
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09:20am
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balunasj
:
2) module builds with single assembly, or separate assembly for each module == one dist artifact for each
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09:20am
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alexsmirnov
:
oops... It seems like dump from crashed application. Of course, it should be removed.
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09:20am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: thats what I figured
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09:21am
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balunasj
:
for 1) I'm leaning to a single complete dist with lib, examples, docs, etc....
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09:22am
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balunasj
:
thoughts?
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09:22am
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balunasj
:
opinions?
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09:23am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: agree
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09:23am
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abelevich
:
+1
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09:23am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
sounds reasonable in order guys not to asking where to get demo/docs/something else to check
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09:24am
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balunasj
:
ok good - make our download bigger, but less of them
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09:24am
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balunasj
:
one concern there would be an example like photo albulm with all of those images
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09:24am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: we can always repack it into smaller parts
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09:24am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
just archive will be huge comparing current one.. but I think most part using maven so will get just libs updated
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09:24am
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balunasj
:
but we'll cross that bridge when we get ther.
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09:25am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: agree - I think in many cases user will be downloading the dist for setup, reference, and review. 
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09:25am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
yup
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09:25am
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balunasj
:
most users hopefully use maven
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09:26am
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balunasj
:
ok so moving onto 2) since it was dependent on 1)
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09:26am
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balunasj
:
were and how do we want to have the assembly ( we discussed a while ago, but want to refresh ).
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09:26am
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alexsmirnov
:
Guys, is it possible to use some online store for fhotoalbum images ?
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09:27am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: good idea, or perhaps pull from flicker directly for the 4.0 version
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09:27am
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nbelaevski
:
alexsmirnov: balunasj: simething at jboss.org infrastructure?...
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09:27am
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balunasj
:
I've seen other examples of that.
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09:28am
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alexsmirnov
:
flickr sounds good. It has API that allows to get images for some criteria.
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09:28am
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balunasj
:
plus that has the wow factor
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09:29am
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balunasj
:
i.e. RichFaces interacting with 3rd party
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09:29am
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balunasj
:
like twitter
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09:29am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: we'll need to add youtube integration then
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09:29am
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abelevich
:
(:
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09:29am
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balunasj
:
yeah - that would be good
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09:30am
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balunasj
:
we may have some more time at the end of the meeting today depending on how long
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09:30am
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balunasj
:
skinning takes
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09:30am
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balunasj
:
we can discuss examples then.
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09:31am
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balunasj
:
So the current assembly code is pretty basic and is here :
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09:31am
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balunasj
:
http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/richfaces/root/pom.xml
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09:31am
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balunasj
:
near the bottom
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09:31am
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nbelaevski
:
let's clarify with the assembly requirements
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09:31am
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balunasj
:
and referencing two other files.
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09:31am
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balunasj
:
please
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09:32am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: this one will be a problem for tagging
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09:32am
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balunasj
:
which one?
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09:33am
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nbelaevski
:
assembly is not tagged
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09:33am
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nbelaevski
:
assembly files themselves I  mean
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09:33am
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balunasj
:
That is just it and it also makes a mess of root
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09:33am
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balunasj
:
those resources ( license, readme , etc...) should be in an assembly module I think
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09:34am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: agree
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09:34am
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balunasj
:
The root pom.xml and area should be really reserved for just utility build stuff
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09:35am
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balunasj
:
That was one of our concerns when we originally created root pom.xml
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09:35am
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lightguard_jp joined the chat room.
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09:35am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: I wanted to keep it simple
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09:35am
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balunasj
:
it should not morph into a meaningful part of project.
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09:35am
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balunasj
:
yup exactly
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09:35am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: the initial idea was to add profiles for each t/b/t, nothing else
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09:35am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: and use as aggregator
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09:36am
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balunasj
:
right and I agree with that.
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09:36am
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balunasj
:
and you probably agree assembler is too big and complex for that area
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09:37am
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balunasj
:
so we'll create an assembly module with tags, truck, etc...
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09:37am
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balunasj
:
My next question that is related is
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09:37am
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balunasj
:
do we have each module have its own assembler and the root assemble just aggregates into dist?
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09:38am
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balunasj
:
This might make sense for docs and examples, but probably not for frameworks, UI
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09:38am
]
•
balunasj
 
my initial thoughts
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09:40am
]
balunasj
:
that way the root assembler push the docs and examples "sub-dist" into final dist.
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09:40am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: I think yes
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09:40am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: good idea
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09:40am
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alexsmirnov
:
CDK also could use separate assembler.
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09:41am
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balunasj
:
I don't think the same applies for UI and core though - ( although UI might have its own for custom distributions ).
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09:41am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: agree
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09:41am
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pmuir_ is now known as pmuir.
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09:42am
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balunasj
:
so the structure of the dist would be something like this:
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09:42am
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balunasj
:
richfaces-4.0.0.X-XXX.zip
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09:42am
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balunasj
:
-lic file
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09:42am
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balunasj
:
-readme
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09:42am
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balunasj
:
- /doc
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09:42am
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balunasj
:
- /cdk
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09:42am
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balunasj
:
- /examples
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09:43am
]
•
balunasj
 
all generated by the given assembler
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09:43am
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balunasj
:
- /lib
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09:43am
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balunasj
:
- /lib/source
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09:43am
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balunasj
:
the last two contain the same as the A1 dist
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09:44am
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balunasj
:
perhaps also a /test
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09:45am
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balunasj
:
for functional tests - not sure about that though
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09:45am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
examples should also be packed with sources
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09:45am
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abelevich
:
will we provide sources only for api/ui/framework?
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09:45am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
rf-demo already contains them but for photoalbum not sure
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09:45am
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balunasj
:
I think sources for cdk would be in /cdk
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09:45am
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abelevich
:
balunasj: ok
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09:45am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: do we need to be able to rebuild libs back from source?
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09:45am
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balunasj
:
sources for examples would be in /examples
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09:45am
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balunasj
:
broken down by directory
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09:46am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: this is what seam did and I think it made it easy for people to get involved in the project.
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09:46am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: then it seems we need to copy original ui modules structure
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09:46am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: because they could adjust the source and rebuild without svn, outside accounts, etc...
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09:47am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: but this can be bad for IDEs
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09:47am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: yeah - that is really where this is different than seam - is the big UI structure.
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09:47am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: NB: there are generated source also
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09:47am
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balunasj
:
part of me is thinking that a /ui might not be a bad idea
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09:47am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: necessary for IDEs, but excess for manual building
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09:48am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: good point
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09:49am
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balunasj
:
I'll need to think more about that
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09:49am
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alexsmirnov
:
nbelaevski: we always build "sources" jar for assembled library that is supposed to use in IDE
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09:50am
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nbelaevski
:
one more point about aggregate sources archive - it should aggregate modules nested inside t/b/t - this may change relative paths
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09:50am
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balunasj
:
I'm not sure I like the idea of a separate source build, but it might help in this
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09:51am
]
nbelaevski
:
let's make a separate sources archive for the people who wish to rebuild everything?
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09:51am
]
•
balunasj
 
it also means it would be a separate requirement and could slip to a BX
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09:51am
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: I agree with that goal
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09:52am
]
nbelaevski
:
in this case dist includes delivered modules + minimal sources for it required for debugging. for examples we can change this slightly and let the user rebuild from sources
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09:52am
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: I would like user to easily get a basic setup running where they could see changes they make.
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09:52am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: sorry, what BX is?
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09:52am
]
balunasj
:
BETAX
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09:52am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: thanks
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09:53am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: your last comment are you talking about binary/src dist, or a combined dist?
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09:55am
]
nbelaevski
:
separate sources artifact
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09:55am
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nbelaevski
:
and conmbined dist
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09:55am
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nbelaevski
:
* combined
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09:55am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: side [ot] note - .org team going to be integrating crucible - I told them I would be interest in RichFaces being a test project for it.
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09:56am
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pmuir left the chat room. ("Leaving")
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09:56am
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balunasj
:
so we would have the a clean binary dist with no source
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09:56am
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balunasj
:
a source dist that can recreated libs
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09:56am
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balunasj
:
from source
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09:56am
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balunasj
:
and the option of a super dist with both
[
09:57am
]
alexsmirnov
:
balunasj: Binary distribution should contain source Jar for use in IDE, but if someone wants to develop or modify RichFaces code he must use full source build.
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09:57am
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balunasj
:
ok I can agree with that
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09:57am
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nbelaevski
:
alexsmirnov: fully agree
[
09:57am
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balunasj
:
I think these are good starting points for the updates and estimates
[
09:58am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: we can let the user rebuild examples from bundled sources
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09:58am
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balunasj
:
I wanted to talk about possible plugin integration as well, but we are almost out of time.
[
09:58am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: that's what we do for now..
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09:58am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: This is where I think even the binary dist should have example source
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09:58am
]
balunasj
:
this is where most users are going to start
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09:59am
]
balunasj
:
and maybe even use one as the base of their own app
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09:59am
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balunasj
:
Examples should be self contained
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09:59am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: right
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09:59am
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balunasj
:
good - same page
[
10:00am
]
nbelaevski
:
Alex_Kolonitsky; can tell more about plugins integration
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10:00am
]
nbelaevski
:
Alex_Kolonitsky; he worked with Sonar
[
10:02am
]
balunasj
:
sure - and I have a ticket in with .org team
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10:02am
]
balunasj
:
for that
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10:02am
]
balunasj
:
but based on the crucible time lag you can image that will take longer
[
10:03am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: if it takes long, maybe we should ask our IT for the help?
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10:04am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: perhaps we will need to.  I've got talks with rodney and $$ so perhaps I can figure something out on our end
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10:04am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: I know Sonar is used by our collegaus, so I think there should be a public server running it somewhere at *.exadel.com
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10:05am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: for the Crucible we need to request the license
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10:05am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: crucible is already in the works with jboss team
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10:05am
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balunasj
:
but the sonor in not
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10:06am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: I see
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10:06am
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balunasj
:
Crucible really only makes sense if it is integrated with jira, and fisheye etc... which this will be as I understand it.
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10:07am
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balunasj
:
the sonar server can really just be a separate entity really - so would be good as a offsite project.
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10:07am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: imho, Eclipse integration is the thing required the most
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10:07am
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balunasj
:
iirc that is - I'm not expert with sonar
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10:07am
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amarkhel joined the chat room.
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10:07am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: sure but that comes as plugins for eclipse
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10:08am
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amarkhel
:
hi
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10:08am
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balunasj
:
amarkhel: Hello
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10:08am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: yes, some should exist
[
10:08am
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nbelaevski
:
amarkhel: hi
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10:08am
]
balunasj
:
we have a lot to tackle with assembly. 
[
10:08am
]
balunasj
:
we should probably take a quick break and switch to skinning