09:01am
]
balunasj
:
we are going to start with semantic markup discussions - http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2SemanticMarkupStatus
[
09:02am
]
nbelaevski
:
hello all
[
09:03am
]
LexD
:
Hello
[
09:04am
]
pyaschenko
:
Hi All
[
09:05am
]
jsanda left the chat room.
[
09:06am
]
balunasj
:
ok all
[
09:06am
]
balunasj
:
Ilya is having some client problems
[
09:06am
]
balunasj
:
and will join in a few minutes
[
09:06am
]
balunasj
:
LexD: I was just reviewing the updated semantic markup status
[
09:07am
]
balunasj
:
LexD: Can you give a summary on IRC, and then we can discuss the details?
[
09:07am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: wiki is dead
[
09:07am
]
balunasj
:
crap
[
09:07am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: I'm getting 503 trying to open the page
[
09:08am
]
balunasj
:
then I won't refresh my page
[
09:08am
]
balunasj
:
let me see if it is happening to me
[
09:08am
]
LexD
:
Sure
[
09:08am
]
•
balunasj
 
checking....
[
09:08am
]
balunasj
:
LexD: thanks
[
09:09am
]
pmuir joined the chat room.
[
09:09am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: I get System Error
[
09:09am
]
balunasj
:
I'll ping IT
[
09:10am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: thanks!
[
09:10am
]
Marauder joined the chat room.
[
09:10am
]
Marauder
:
Hi Guys!
[
09:10am
]
Marauder
:
sorry for being late
[
09:10am
]
Marauder is now known as ilya_shaikovsky.
[
09:10am
]
nbelaevski
:
ilya_shaikovsky: hi
[
09:10am
]
LexD
:
    * comboBox
[
09:10am
]
LexD
:
    * extendedDataTable
[
09:10am
]
LexD
:
    * modalPanel
[
09:10am
]
LexD
:
    * suggestionbox
[
09:10am
]
LexD
:
Some layouts is done -        * scrollableDataTable
[
09:10am
]
LexD
:
    * tabPanel
[
09:10am
]
LexD
:
    * tree
[
09:11am
]
balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: it is ok the wiki appears to be down
[
09:11am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
hm.. I just opened the status
[
09:11am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
page
[
09:12am
]
LexD
:
Now I work at inplaceSelect and modalPanel
[
09:12am
]
balunasj
:
LexD: So the first set of items are completed fully?  or just partly done?
[
09:12am
]
balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: checking....
[
09:13am
]
prabhat
:
balunasj: wiki is back up
[
09:13am
]
balunasj
:
ok seem back - maybe it only works with Ilya is on IRC
[
09:13am
]
LexD
:
In plan: panelBar, panelMenu and toolBar
[
09:13am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
[
09:13am
]
balunasj
:
LexD & ilya_shaikovsky : are all planned components for ALPHA2 reviewed, and updated?
[
09:14am
]
LexD
:
Oh... You can see it already on the wiki
[
09:14am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
balunasj, from Lex we were need only tables markups epecially extended table and seems we all choosen the markup.. so maybe just some icons will be need
[
09:15am
]
balunasj
:
LexD: yeah the wiki just came back up
[
09:15am
]
balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: ok so does LexD need to review the final EDT layouts?  or is that all set?
[
09:15am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
under "seems" - I mean discussion about markup was finished and now just some improvements discussed during implementation
[
09:16am
]
balunasj
:
LexD ilya_shaikovsky: ok so all the other components for ALPHA2 are completed?
[
09:17am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
Kostya made some changes to markup which Lex already reviewed so maybe he could just review those changes but that is all to do
[
09:17am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
balunasj, ^
[
09:17am
]
balunasj
:
ok good.
[
09:17am
]
balunasj
:
and all the other components for A2 are good?
[
09:18am
]
LexD
:
I think yes
[
09:18am
]
balunasj
:
LexD: ok goos
[
09:18am
]
balunasj
:
good
[
09:18am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
yes we created cool design for buttons and links ourselves
[
09:18am
]
nbelaevski
:
we'll need Lex's help to finish skinning for tables
[
09:18am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
ilya_shaikovsky, ^
[
09:18am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
balunasj, ^
[
09:18am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: that was my point   we are doing it again.
[
09:19am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
b.t.w. good catch and sorry about that.. forgot about skinning as the meeting about markups
[
09:19am
]
balunasj
:
then for ALPHA2 instead of moving onto other components
[
09:19am
]
balunasj
:
I would like LexD to help with skinning design, and plans
[
09:19am
]
balunasj
:
including the tables.
[
09:19am
]
balunasj
:
That is where I think we can use LexD skills the most atm.
[
09:20am
]
balunasj
:
wdyt? 
[
09:20am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: agree
[
09:20am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
balunasj, b.t.w. I do not see meeting for demo and think that we really not need it.. but then want to ask now
[
09:21am
]
nbelaevski
:
we were going to discuss number of skin params yesterday
[
09:21am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
when we want to make design for it
[
09:21am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
for some Beta I think?
[
09:21am
]
nbelaevski
:
LexD: there's a movement into decreasing number of used params
[
09:21am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
Or now before A2?
[
09:21am
]
balunasj
:
once skinning is farther along we'll have time to review component priorities for B1+
[
09:22am
]
struberg left the chat room.
[
09:22am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: agreed I would like to discuss that as well.
[
09:22am
]
balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: You are right - I did not add a slot for the component gallery.
[
09:22am
]
balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: I basically ran out of space
[
09:23am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
balunasj, this just the main question for me.. and additions of new demos I think do not reqire separate meeting
[
09:23am
]
balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: I would like the have discussions on that - but I think a hour to discuss the demos would be needed.
[
09:24am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
balunasj, ok then we will discuss this question there
[
09:24am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
and let continue with skin params
[
09:24am
]
nbelaevski
:
also JIRA issues are for our today discussion
[
09:24am
]
balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: yes lets keep to the skinning and markup talks
[
09:24am
]
balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: we can discuss offline about a meeting for demos I think
[
09:25am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: Yes I would like to identify and create/define jira's and tasks for lex here
[
09:26am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: lets save that for closer to the end
[
09:26am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: and discuss skinning topics for now - sound good
[
09:26am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
ilya_shaikovsky, sure
[
09:26am
]
nbelaevski
:
ok
[
09:26am
]
nbelaevski
:
so for skinning
[
09:27am
]
•
balunasj
 
pinging markhel
[
09:27am
]
nbelaevski
:
LexD says he currently has a lack of skinning parameters
[
09:27am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski LexD : could you explain that a bit more?
[
09:28am
]
amitev2 joined the chat room.
[
09:29am
]
Alex_Kolonitsky1 joined the chat room.
[
09:29am
]
amarkhel joined the chat room.
[
09:29am
]
amarkhel
:
hi
[
09:29am
]
balunasj
:
hi amarkhel we were just going to start skinning talks with LexD
[
09:29am
]
amarkhel
:
balunasj:ok
[
09:29am
]
amitev left the chat room. (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[
09:29am
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Alex_Kolonitsky left the chat room. (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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09:29am
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09:29am
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09:29am
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[
09:31am
]
•
balunasj
 
hoping irc is not messing up again
[
09:32am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: ping - is irc still on 
[
09:35am
]
You left the chat by being disconnected from the server.
[
09:35am
]
You rejoined the room.
[
09:35am
]
balunasj_
:
We are having IRC problems again
[
09:35am
]
amarkhel left the chat room. (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
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09:36am
]
amarkhel joined the chat room.
[
09:36am
]
balunasj left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[
09:36am
]
balunasj_
:
nbelaevski: LexD : ping
[
09:36am
]
You were promoted to operator by ChanServ.
[
09:37am
]
balunasj_
:
anyone who can please "ping" if you can?
[
09:37am
]
pyaschenko1
:
balunasj_: ping
[
09:37am
]
nbelaevski
:
CTCP PING reply from balunasj_ [n=balunasj@redhat/jboss/balunasj]: 0 sec 769 msec
[
09:38am
]
nbelaevski
:
LexD is ghost, not a real Lex
[
09:39am
]
balunasj_
:
nbelaevski: you talked about joining same server - I'm on irc.freenode.net
[
09:39am
]
LexD left the chat room.
[
09:39am
]
balunasj_
:
what are others connected to?
[
09:39am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj_: I've joined US server, you are probably too
[
09:39am
]
LexD joined the chat room.
[
09:39am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
I'm there
[
09:39am
]
nbelaevski
:
wow, we are back
[
09:39am
]
LexD
:
I'm too
[
09:39am
]
balunasj_
:
ok good
[
09:40am
]
nbelaevski
:
we have a colorful components with many graphic elements
[
09:40am
]
nbelaevski
:
ok, back to topic
[
09:40am
]
nbelaevski
:
all these elements need their own colors in the most
[
09:40am
]
balunasj_
:
nbelaevski: just to restate the question - this is regarding the need for so many styles - correct?
[
09:40am
]
nbelaevski
:
wiring all them to skin colors is called "skinning" and is a handwork requiring LexD artistic eye
[
09:41am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj_: this is too
[
09:41am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
balunasj_, why we need so many skin params.. Alex want to reduce them but we even wanted to add
[
09:42am
]
nbelaevski
:
if we reduce the number of colors that skin provides, we'll need to replace this handwork with an algorithm for approximating missing colors
[
09:42am
]
balunasj_
:
similar to what alex S said yesterday - is there a reason we can't build from a common set of styles - a smaller core
[
09:43am
]
balunasj_
:
even if so many classes are needed - couldn't some be "generated" from a smaller set ?
[
09:43am
]
balunasj_
:
say we expose 10 settings for a skin ( just throwing out the # ).
[
09:43am
]
balunasj_
:
to end users
[
09:43am
]
balunasj_
:
some are colors
[
09:43am
]
balunasj_
:
gradients, etc...
[
09:44am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj_: we can, but this can increase markup size
[
09:44am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj_: ex. class="rich-class-for-absolute-position rich-class-input-background rich-class-input-border ..."
[
09:44am
]
balunasj_
:
then the specific styles for the inputSlider could build from that?
[
09:45am
]
balunasj_
:
but CSS can be inherited so one style could wrap the others.
[
09:45am
]
balunasj_
:
let me try to find an example
[
09:45am
]
nbelaevski
:
you mean this: .rich-input-border, .rich-button-border, ... {
[
09:45am
]
nbelaevski
:
}
[
09:45am
]
nbelaevski
:
?
[
09:46am
]
nbelaevski
:
sharing the same declaration?
[
09:46am
]
[ru]TnT joined the chat room.
[
09:46am
]
Alex_Kolonitsky left the chat room. (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[
09:48am
]
pyaschenko left the chat room. (barjavel.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[
09:48am
]
rruss left the chat room. (barjavel.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[
09:48am
]
balunasj_
:
no I was thinking of something else - can't find it now, but might have been related to this - http://chriseppstein.github.com/blog/2009/10/12/css-class-inheritance/
[
09:48am
]
rruss joined the chat room.
[
09:48am
]
balunasj_
:
although this is obviously no supported
[
09:49am
]
balunasj_
:
we certainly do not want to have markup length problems like before.
[
09:50am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj_: that's cool, but non-standard
[
09:50am
]
balunasj_
:
yup
[
09:51am
]
nbelaevski
:
I'm talking about the number of colors in skin
[
09:52am
]
nbelaevski
:
LexD states the current number of colors is minimum
[
09:52am
]
nbelaevski
:
LexD: is this right?
[
09:52am
]
LexD
:
absolutely
[
09:52am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
nbelaevski, as written at wiki Lex wanted to add a few ones at least for tables
[
09:52am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
LexD, ^
[
09:52am
]
LexD
:
If it possible
[
09:52am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj_: what do you think?
[
09:53am
]
LexD
:
In current wersion it is enought
[
09:53am
]
balunasj_
:
nbelaevski: I would need to understand the effect of the choice
[
09:53am
]
balunasj_
:
LexD: if we do not add the colors what happens?
[
09:54am
]
LexD
:
nothing
[
09:55am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
[
09:55am
]
alexsmirnov joined the chat room.
[
09:55am
]
balunasj_
:
LexD: then why would we need them
[
09:55am
]
balunasj_
:
LexD: what happens if we do add the styles?
[
09:55am
]
balunasj_
:
alexsmirnov: we are just discussing skinning and style classes
[
09:56am
]
balunasj_
:
alexsmirnov: numbers, and why we can't lower the #
[
09:57am
]
balunasj_
:
nbelaevski: amarkhel : part of this goes back to what we talked about yesterday - we need a wiki for design and impl review of skinning.  It is easier to understand with it is discussed in the way.
[
09:58am
]
LexD
:
what happens if we do add the styles? - For what?
[
09:58am
]
amarkhel
:
balunasj:agree I'll going to create this page tonight and put at the wiki or tomorrow morning
[
09:59am
]
nbelaevski
:
amarkhel: thanks, please send me a link
[
09:59am
]
balunasj_
:
LexD: above Ilya said that you wanted to add a few for tables?
[
09:59am
]
balunasj_
:
LexD: http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40MarkupsAndSkinningSemanticMarkupStructureRestrictions
[
09:59am
]
balunasj_
:
middle of the page
[
10:00am
]
balunasj_
:
amarkhel: thanks
[
10:00am
]
LexD
:
WWhen I sad about a possibility to add some colors I mean that it make a gfx more colorfull
[
10:01am
]
LexD
:
If we haven't this possibility - all will be as now
[
10:02am
]
balunasj_
:
LexD: ah ok - was confused by the "need" part.
[
10:02am
]
LexD
:
[
10:02am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
hm.. sory for that
[
10:02am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
misspelled
[
10:02am
]
LexD
:
I got it alredy
[
10:03am
]
balunasj_
:
I would certainly vote for ALPHA2 especially we keep things as easy as possible.
[
10:03am
]
balunasj_
:
Skinning will need review and updates I think through the BETA process so we
[
10:03am
]
balunasj_
:
don't need to put all functionality in at one time.
[
10:04am
]
balunasj_
:
we need enough to show maybe 2 skins on the components we ship with ALPHA2
[
10:04am
]
balunasj_
:
and start implementing the features and changes we discussed yesterday
[
10:04am
]
balunasj_
:
nbelaevski: agree? thoughts?
[
10:04am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
sounds good
[
10:05am
]
alexsmirnov
:
balunasj: Sorry, I'm little bit late.
[
10:06am
]
lightguard_jp joined the chat room.
[
10:06am
]
balunasj_
:
alexsmirnov: np - I like any thoughts or opinions on the skinning discussion here.
[
10:06am
]
nbelaevski
:
LexD: what is the absolute minimum of colors #?
[
10:07am
]
balunasj_
:
alexsmirnov: as a update - since most of ALPHA2 components are updated for semantic layouts - we're tlaking about lex being more active with the skinning tasks to get that going.
[
10:07am
]
balunasj_
:
and help out amarkhel where needed.
[
10:11am
]
•
balunasj_
 
thinking we should stop soon for break, and the start on client and core topics
[
10:11am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj_: we have JIRAs for semantic markup for review  - shall we put them offline?
[
10:12am
]
balunasj_
:
yes I think we might need to - client and core will take a fair amount of time
[
10:12am
]
LexD
:
I have proposal to clean our skins from excess (dead) params
[
10:12am
]
balunasj_
:
nbelaevski: are you referring to the ones recently closed, or the other open ones, or ones we need to define?
[
10:13am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj_: to the ones you've sent e-mail about
[
10:13am
]
LexD
:
Like Tips and calrndar scecial color
[
10:13am
]
balunasj_
:
LexD: I would like to hear it.
[
10:13am
]
balunasj_
:
but perhaps a dev forum would be better given the time
[
10:14am
]
balunasj_
:
nbelaevski: might be best to take those off line
[
10:14am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj_: ok, I see
[
10:14am
]
alexsmirnov
:
My poin was: while skin uses different colors, most of them seems derived from one or two base tones. Is in possible to use some manipuletions with brightness/saturation to calculate additional colors ?
[
10:14am
]
balunasj_
:
we'll likely have a lot to discuss with core and client lib.
[
10:14am
]
nbelaevski
:
alexsmirnov: LexD says it will require very complex algorithm to produce satisfiable results
[
10:15am
]
LexD
:
I'll make review a skin parameters. Nick - can you help me&
[
10:15am
]
LexD
:
?
[
10:16am
]
pmuir left the chat room. ("Leaving")
[
10:17am
]
nbelaevski
:
LexD: I think Ilya will be a better person
[
10:17am
]
balunasj_
:
nbelaevski: agreed
[
10:17am
]
nbelaevski
:
ilya_shaikovsky: can you help Lex?
[
10:17am
]
LexD
:
Nick: up to ypu
[
10:17am
]
balunasj_
:
plus I would like to see the "results" in wiki format - linked from or part of the wiki document amarkhel is going to create
[
10:17am
]
LexD
:
you
[
10:17am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
nbelaevski, sure
[
10:18am
]
nbelaevski
:
ilya_shaikovsky: thanks
[
10:18am
]
LexD
:
ilya_shaikovsky: I'll call you some later
[
10:19am
]
balunasj_
:
ilya_shaikovsky: LexD : please see comment above for post to the wiki - I just want to make sure we capture and share the info
[
10:19am
]
LexD
:
Ok
[
10:19am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
LexD, tommorow
[
10:19am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
probably
[
10:19am
]
LexD
:
Up 2 u
[
10:20am
]
balunasj_
:
LexD ilya_shaikovsky : thanks
[
10:20am
]
balunasj_
:
you may also want to include amarkhel in the talks so he is aware
[
10:24am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj_: ilya_shaikovsky: especially at the later stages of discussion
[
10:24am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
LexD, just two more meetings today and then will be busy So sorry but let plan to tommorow
[
10:25am
]
ilya_shaikovsky
:
nbelaevski, sounds good
[
10:25am
]
nbelaevski
:
ilya_shaikovsky:
[
10:25am
]
balunasj_
:
ok lets discuss a couple of jira's quick and then take a break
[
10:26am
]
balunasj_
:
https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RFPL-99
[
10:26am
]
balunasj_
:
LexD: I saw this was closed, but was not sure when the wiki page was last updated
[
10:27am
]
balunasj_
:
Similar question for https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RFPL-95
[
10:30am
]
balunasj_
:
LexD: Just wanted to understand what was conclusion, and make sure we track it.
[
10:31am
]
balunasj_
:
ok we're are out of time - I'll have to take this offline!
[
10:31am
]
balunasj_
:
lets take a 5-10 minutes break and then start up with client and core topics
[
10:32am
]
alexsmirnov
:
FYI: In the <rich:page> I use Yahoo "fonts" stylesheet that unified all font sizes to safe use "pt" units instead of  "px" that properly scales page for different font sizes ( Ctrl+, Ctrl- ).
[
10:33am
]
alexsmirnov
:
Is it makes sense to use same approach to whole library ? Some our components becomes ugly for non-default font sizes.