[16:09:50] <balunasj> lets get started
[16:10:16] <balunasj> For the rest of this meeting we'll discuss examples and more specifically the component gallery - http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFacesComponentGalleryApplicationStatus
[16:10:29] <balunasj> However before we just into that
[16:10:58] <balunasj> I wanted to discuss rules for examples and migration from sandbox to the packaged example dist
[16:11:26] <balunasj> In some ways this is very similar to UI component migrating from sandbox to UI
[16:12:09] <balunasj> we'll need to create a task to create, and document the requirements.
[16:12:32] <balunasj> However for ALPHA2 we'll have limited examples ( likely 1 main one ).
[16:12:55] <balunasj> however since examples are already showing up in sandbox we'll need to also discuss structure for this.
[16:13:29] <balunasj> just to get started for example requirments:
[16:14:09] <balunasj> 1) meaningful example that shows or demonstrates some functionality.
[16:14:16] <balunasj> 2) code review
[16:14:22] <balunasj> 3) unit tests
[16:14:39] <balunasj> 4) readme and/or docs
[16:14:47] *** clerum has joined #richfaces
[16:14:59] <ilya_shaikovsky> balunasj, do you mean that every component development example should became public together with the component?
[16:15:00] <balunasj> 5) build/dependency alighnment
[16:15:30] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: well they are all public :-P
[16:15:37] <ilya_shaikovsky> sorry for interruption :(
[16:15:43] <balunasj> but no that is not what I'm saying
[16:15:50] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: np
[16:16:28] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: The development examples may/may not be part of the example bundle.  I'm not 100% either way on that.
[16:16:35] <ilya_shaikovsky> I believe that we have 1) gallery, photoalbum, jabber and so on - real examples and 2) component-name-demo which used just during development
[16:16:55] <ilya_shaikovsky> and 2) does should not require so much work I think
[16:17:08] <balunasj> but any example in the bundle should should either be like your #1
[16:17:11] <ilya_shaikovsky> does should not = should not
[16:17:22] <balunasj> ?
[16:17:24] <nbelaevski> balunasj: any requirements/restrictions for used platforms - e.g. Weld, plain JSF?
[16:17:29] <ilya_shaikovsky> ok.. so we need to separate dev samples then
[16:18:01] <balunasj> nbelaevski: I think we want to encourage and have a mixture of that in the examples
[16:18:17] <ilya_shaikovsky> nbelaevski, you mean which kind of them?
[16:18:18] <alexsmirnov> I have had an idea to create common project that provides example structure and view templates, so component developer has to create a simple fragment only. I've tried to do that in sandbox examples.
[16:18:18] <ilya_shaikovsky> :)
[16:18:22] <balunasj> nbelaevski: I think it is important to show how RF integrates with EE5, EE6, tomcat, spring, etc...
[16:18:40] <nbelaevski> balunasj: ok, I see
[16:18:48] <ilya_shaikovsky> balunasj, yes this what we missed in the past and this sounds cool
[16:18:49] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: this goes along with you idea from before
[16:19:01] <alexsmirnov> the same fragmens would be assembled as gallery example.
[16:19:18] <balunasj> if you look at seam - I think their example are one of the reason for its success.
[16:19:27] <balunasj> They have examples to cover many different env.
[16:20:02] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: the trick is time of coarse
[16:20:20] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: would these double as dev examples
[16:20:46] <ilya_shaikovsky> balunasj, but we needed to start it sometime.. and finally seems best time for that came :)
[16:20:49] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: I think there are different requirments for dev/testing a component and showing off its functionality.
[16:21:14] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: agree
[16:22:20] <ilya_shaikovsky> alexsmirnov, balunasj, yes that was my point.. I believe developer which creates sample should not care about how clean it is and well documented and if it shows the cases fine.. developer should be able to check functionality fast and create some "regression" pages and so on..
[16:23:01] <ilya_shaikovsky> and the real "examples" creator should care about all the points Jay listed above
[16:23:05] <alexsmirnov> balunasj: I little bit. As I've seen from my examples, they are usually close to the ones from richfaces-demo
[16:23:12] * balunasj I think alexsmirnov is providing a good bridge to discussing next-gen component gallery - we'll take the example requirements as a new task for later release.  Component gallery is a requirements for A2 - so lets focus on that now.
[16:24:54] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: hmm, I think there will always be similarities, but in the end we don't want the developer to be slowed down too much with dev example
[16:25:07] <balunasj> and we don't want component gallery to be too unstable
[16:25:16] <balunasj> since it will be the showcase for us.
[16:26:18] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: I do like your idea of breaking up the component gallery into a core framework and a way to pull in X # of examples for components though
[16:27:34] <balunasj> thoughts?  agree disagree?
[16:27:47] <ilya_shaikovsky> like some special packages/folders defined with some configs which will be searched for samples to include to gallery? and the others which could be freelly used by developer for internal samples creation?
[16:27:54] <ilya_shaikovsky> alexsmirnov, ^
[16:32:06] <balunasj> we'll need to move on soon to discuss resources, requirements for A2, and related items.
[16:32:26] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: if you have thoughts on above points it would be good to hear them :-)
[16:33:24] <ilya_shaikovsky> balunasj, so want to confirm my assumption made regarding design
[16:34:07] <ilya_shaikovsky> Lets remain design in current ALPHA state and move on just with samples for A2..
[16:34:11] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: you mean the difference between dev examples, and component gallery?
[16:34:24] <ilya_shaikovsky> no about design for components gallery
[16:34:38] <ilya_shaikovsky> will we migrate the same of create new for major version
[16:35:11] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: first I think we need to discuss resources and some general requirements.
[16:35:49] <balunasj> nbelaevski and I have been discuss this a bit, and we think that amarkhel and ilya_shaikovsky will be the best people to work on this.
[16:36:22] <balunasj> given ilya_shaikovsky's other tasks he would be part time, and amarkhel ( once skinning is farther along ) will be closer to full time.
[16:36:31] <alexsmirnov> Take a look for JSFUnit example https://svn.jboss.org/repos/richfaces/root/examples-sandbox/trunk/testapps/ajax that uses another war with component page, and just provides special template and project configuration.
[16:36:51] <balunasj> amarkhel, ilya_shaikovsky : does this sound good to you guys?
[16:36:55] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: looking....
[16:37:04] <ilya_shaikovsky> yes
[16:37:31] <alexsmirnov> The component project is there: https://svn.jboss.org/repos/richfaces/root/examples-sandbox/trunk/components/ajax
[16:40:45] *** rruss has quit IRC
[16:41:14] <balunasj> it will require more time than we have here to review I think - but I see what you are trying to do.
[16:41:42] <alexsmirnov> They have no properly designed templates, but base idea was to have minimal files in example and reuse whole structure from the template project. Maven lets us to use the same war as dependency in another.
[16:41:52] <balunasj> I like this as a idea, but are you integrating the other war via an iframe? or somehow merging the views/apps?
[16:44:23] <balunasj> amarkhel ilya_shaikovsky : I would also like the component gallery to showcase RichFaces, but also CDI/Weld, and tools integration.
[16:44:55] <balunasj> This will both demo how RF integrates, but can also be used to validate and test these important integrations
[16:45:22] <ilya_shaikovsky> I also like the alexsmirnov idea but still want to split the examples to dev-ones and public ones in order developers not spend time to clean gallery-like apps
[16:46:01] <balunasj> It will also make it easy for users to import this into tools and allow us to provide examples on how to do this.
[16:46:09] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: I agree with you on this
[16:46:32] <ilya_shaikovsky> balunasj, agree for sure with integration requirements
[16:46:53] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: When we need something fixed or created for a component I don't want to end up with the dev spending a lot of time making it pretty.
[16:47:11] <alexsmirnov> balunasj: Just using JSF template/insert.
[16:47:27] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: amarkhel : good - because it will also let you guys gain experience with this
[16:47:42] <balunasj> and then work with those teams as needed for issues that are found.
[16:47:55] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: ok good -  that is good.
[16:48:28] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: what are your thoughts on dev vs. gallery example?
[16:48:38] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: do you see our points, or have other thoughts?
[16:49:00] <balunasj> amarkhel : same with you - since you will be involved with development
[16:49:01] <balunasj> ?
[16:50:59] <amarkhel> I am agree with you and Ilya
[16:51:18] <alexsmirnov> balunasj: I just wish to reduce work by reusing as much as possible in examples.
[16:52:10] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: certainly and I agree with the goal - in fact I think both gallery and dev examples should use the idea of base templates, and reuse the "core" as much as possible.
[16:52:25] <balunasj> but the actual implementations of the pages would be different.
[16:53:05] * balunasj brainstorming : perhaps there is a way to have a comp_gallery.xhtml and comp_dev.xhtml
[16:53:12] <nbelaevski> imho, reuse is good for automatic tests, but not for the actual demo
[16:53:46] <balunasj> in the same structure, but might still cause problems with stability.
[16:53:50] <nbelaevski> developer example should test all the functionality including minor aspects, and that's not suitable for demo
[16:54:01] <nbelaevski> balunasj: there may be several demos necessary
[16:54:01] <balunasj> nbelaevski: agreed
[16:54:27] <balunasj> nbelaevski: agreed
[16:54:38] <balunasj> :-)  I seem to be echoing myself
[16:54:46] <ilya_shaikovsky> :)
[16:54:51] <balunasj> ok so we are almost out of time
[16:55:01] <balunasj> lets get down next actions for this
[16:55:10] <balunasj> and then I want to discuss tomorrow meetings
[16:55:29] <ilya_shaikovsky> balunasj, yes need to decide requirements for A2
[16:55:39] <ilya_shaikovsky> is it will be just new samples
[16:55:48] <ilya_shaikovsky> or application level work also should be planned
[16:56:11] <balunasj> for next actions we'll need jiras/wiki to cover design updates like CDI core, and general behave/UI review.
[16:56:37] <balunasj> To be honest for A2 I would rather have the core app, and UI in place
[16:56:49] <balunasj> and would be ok if it did not cover all component for this release
[16:57:23] <balunasj> then for B1 begin with requirements of full component covergage
[16:57:35] <balunasj> including this being part of the component migration process
[16:57:42] <balunasj> discussed before
[16:57:52] <ilya_shaikovsky> "and UI in place" - I prefer to go to A2 with just current ALPHA design (maybe slightly improved using some free template)
[16:58:22] <ilya_shaikovsky> because design of gallery itself I think should be started after some core demo component will be ready - tabs, menus and so on
[16:59:23] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: sure, although I mean less CSS style  although that is important, but more about what happens when we click a link that says "menus", or how do we handle multiple examples for each component
[17:00:09] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: agreed, but the core workflow should be defined.  a
[17:00:18] <balunasj> and this could also effect priorities for BETAs
[17:00:28] <ilya_shaikovsky> got it and agree
[17:01:14] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: and amarkhel : can you guys capture this info, and create the jira's and start planning out design wiki/
[17:01:23] <balunasj> we need to move on to tomorrows plans quick
[17:01:30] <ilya_shaikovsky> sure Jay
[17:02:07] <balunasj> so tomorrow the first item I have is misc. requirements discussion.  There are a few items that I want to cover, and I'm sure we'll have others too.  I also want to use this time
[17:02:21] <balunasj> to allow for items we may need more time on.
[17:02:43] <balunasj> Then for the second part of the meeting I wanted to focus/cont. CDK discussion
[17:02:57] <balunasj> it seems we had more to cover there.
[17:03:34] <balunasj> like estimates tasks for the status discussed yesterday
[17:03:50] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: I just wanted to make sure you were aware because it is so early for you
[17:03:59] <balunasj> alexsmirnov: will that me ok?
[17:04:26] <balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: please email me, and/or nbelaevski with any items you would like to bring up in these areas and we'll do it for you
[17:04:47] <ilya_shaikovsky> balunasj, sure I'll talk with Nick before meeting
[17:04:59] <balunasj> ok great!
[17:05:16] <balunasj> we'll thats it from my side for today - anyone have anything else to bring up right now?
[17:05:56] *** lfryc_ has joined #richfaces
[17:06:06] <nbelaevski> balunasj: none from me
[17:06:11] <balunasj> ok - thanks all!