09:01am
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balunasj
:
Hi all - we'll get started on the last day off ALPHA2 meeting shortly - I want to give some time for people to join
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09:04am
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balunasj
:
ok guys lets get started
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09:05am
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balunasj
:
here is the meeting schedule - http://community.jboss.org/wiki/400ALPHA2MeetingScheduleJanuary2010
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09:07am
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balunasj
:
We are going to hold off CDK discussions until alex joins in
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09:07am
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balunasj
:
but I wanted to start by reviewing any remaining or misc release items that we should plan for.
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09:07am
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balunasj
:
Please take a minute and take a lot at the bottom of this page http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2ReleasePlan
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09:08am
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balunasj
:
for some idea's.  I also have some others in mind as well.
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09:08am
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alexsmirnov joined the chat room.
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09:10am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: I'm looking at the bottom of the http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFaces40ALPHA2ReleasePlan page, but the last update was 17th Jan and I don't see any new information
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09:11am
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Konstantin1 joined the chat room.
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09:11am
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balunasj
:
yup - it is not new, but some of this we have not discussed and I think could have impact on release
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09:11am
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balunasj
:
or at least should be brought up
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09:11am
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abelevich joined the chat room.
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09:11am
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balunasj
:
and defferred
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09:12am
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abelevich
:
hi all
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09:12am
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balunasj
:
Hi all
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09:12am
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alexsmirnov
:
Hi!
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09:12am
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balunasj
:
So some of the misc Items I had in mind were :
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09:12am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: ok, I see now
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09:13am
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balunasj
:
Maven archetypes?
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09:13am
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balunasj
:
code reviews and standards
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09:13am
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balunasj
:
tools integration brainstorming and ideas
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09:13am
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balunasj
:
JSF 2 updates and improvements ( likely need another meeting for this ).
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09:14am
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balunasj
:
Hosting ALPHA2 examples?  Is it worth it at this point
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09:14am
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amarkhel joined the chat room.
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09:14am
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amarkhel
:
hi
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09:14am
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balunasj
:
things like 508 compliance I do not think applies yet.
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09:14am
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balunasj
:
Hi all
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09:15am
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balunasj
:
plus any other items or tasks that need more discussion
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09:15am
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balunasj
:
does anyone else have more to add?
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09:15am
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balunasj
:
We'll talk about these for another 45 min, and then focus on CDK topics
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09:16am
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nbelaevski
:
licensing check plugin can be added as part f build
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09:16am
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cofeineS1nshine joined the chat room.
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09:16am
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nbelaevski
:
for Maven archetypes I've commented at migration topics - I propose to add them as requirement for A2
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09:16am
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09:16am
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nbelaevski
:
as this will be necessary for BETAs
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09:17am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: agree with license check plugin
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09:18am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: agreed, with some of the archetypes
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09:18am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: I wanted to discuss which ones are needed, and what ones are for later
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09:18am
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balunasj
:
that is as a good a place to start as any other
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09:18am
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prabhat left the chat room. (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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09:19am
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balunasj
:
what achetypes should be required for A2 and what ones can push off?
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09:19am
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nbelaevski
:
- component
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09:19am
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nbelaevski
:
- developer example
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09:19am
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nbelaevski
:
-- simple
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09:19am
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nbelaevski
:
-- weld
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09:19am
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nbelaevski
:
-- Seam 3 (???)
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09:20am
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Alex_Kolonitsky joined the chat room.
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09:20am
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nbelaevski
:
-- uber-war for QE purposes
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09:20am
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nbelaevski
:
that's what I think is required
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09:20am
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balunasj
:
agreed
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09:20am
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balunasj
:
although I think seam 3 can wait
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09:20am
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balunasj
:
for now
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09:21am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: ok
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09:22am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: describe uber-war a bit
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09:22am
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balunasj
:
want to make sure we are on the same page
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09:22am
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nbelaevski
:
that's war assembled from several war projects
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09:23am
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nbelaevski
:
we discussed usage of such technique for functional tests at f-2-f meeting
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09:24am
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nbelaevski
:
also yesterday we discussed this. alexsmirnov, please correct me if the talk was not about uber-war
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09:24am
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balunasj
:
ok yes - I was not sure if this was the same as what alex talked about or not.
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09:24am
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nbelaevski
:
I'll post the link to Maven plugin: http://cargo.codehaus.org/Merging+WAR+files
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09:25am
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balunasj
:
ok
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09:25am
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alexsmirnov
:
Yes, that is the same idea
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09:26am
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nbelaevski
:
alexsmirnov: ok
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09:26am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: in your example is this what you are using?
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09:30am
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alexsmirnov
:
Noy yet
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09:30am
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balunasj
:
ok
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09:33am
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nbelaevski
:
proposal on release planning page - strikethrough the points already implemented or mark them somehow else
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09:33am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: yes somethign like this I agree
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09:34am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: ok
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09:34am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: I wish the jira strike through extended beyond comments in jira
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09:34am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: probably confluence wiki can do this
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09:35am
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balunasj
:
one thing to note though is that I do not think that these documents will be updated - jira is going to the be the document of record.
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09:35am
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balunasj
:
these docs will provide guidance
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09:35am
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balunasj
:
and assist in planning.
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09:35am
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balunasj
:
I would not us updating these docs every week to make sure they match expectations
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09:36am
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balunasj
:
ideally jira will represent that.
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09:36am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: ok
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09:36am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: r. confluence wiki - I agree
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09:37am
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balunasj
:
one thought
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09:37am
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balunasj
:
should the archetypes live in CDK or somewhere else.
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09:38am
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nbelaevski
:
seems in CDK as they can be part of CDK release
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09:39am
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alexsmirnov
:
balunasj: I think what CDK is right place for them, at least for component project
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09:39am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: yeah - I think that might be best, although I wanted to keep them separate somehow.
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09:39am
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balunasj
:
at least keep them separate inside the CDK
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09:40am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: alexsmirnov: for examples we can separate archetypes, or even better use ready ones
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09:41am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: how this is done in Seam/Weld?
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09:42am
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nbelaevski
:
Weld has separate archetypes folder
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09:42am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: things have changed recently - looking...
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09:42am
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nbelaevski
:
let me post one more idea: talking about 508 compliance - we can work on acceptance criteria document for 508th standard compliance (of course, if there's no ready one)
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09:43am
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balunasj
:
here is some info on it - http://www.seamframework.org/Documentation/WeldQuickstartForMavenUsers
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09:43am
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nbelaevski
:
the main criteria here is usage of version matrix
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09:44am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: we do not have one that I know of.  I do know that is important for some government users.
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09:44am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: yesterday the user has referenced this: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legge_Stanca
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09:44am
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balunasj
:
My thought was to postpone 508 for a later BETA before focusing on it more.
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09:44am
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balunasj
:
looking....
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09:45am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: saying that apps not suporting disabled Javascript have legal issues in Italy
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09:45am
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balunasj
:
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09:45am
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balunasj
:
when I first looked at that link I laughed - I can't read italian
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09:45am
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nbelaevski
:
http://community.jboss.org/message/522058#522058
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09:46am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski must have another skill we did not know
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09:46am
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balunasj
:
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09:46am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: sorry Jay, I haven't yet translated this
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09:46am
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balunasj
:
hehe
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09:47am
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balunasj
:
so that is a REALLY tricky one for use and likely all component libraries with ajax support.
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09:47am
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balunasj
:
does JSF 2.0 handle this somehow?
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09:47am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: ^
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09:48am
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balunasj
:
or would JSF 2 ajax support suffer here as well?
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09:49am
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balunasj
:
btw - weld keeps their archetypes separate package - http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/weld/
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09:49am
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alexsmirnov
:
balunasj: No, it is not. commandLink does not work without JavaScript, and JSF 2.0 has no wat to simulate ajax without JavaScript.
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09:49am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: ok
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09:49am
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alexsmirnov
:
This is up to application developer to use appropriate components for pages.
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09:50am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: so I think we need to be aware that some users may have this requirement, but we really can not spend too much time on it.
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09:50am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: agreed - it is a lot like security
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09:50am
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alexsmirnov
:
Google mail has similar feature - simplified version that uses HTML only.
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09:51am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: it is maybe 10% component/JSF responsibility, but developers has other 90% for a secure applications.
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09:51am
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alexsmirnov
:
It has been discussed in EG but no useful solution decided.
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09:51am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: yup, but I think that is what other users would need to do with Richfaces/JSF 2.0 - have a separate interface for this req.
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09:52am
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balunasj
:
so back to archetypes quick
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09:52am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: what is your concern with version-matrix?
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09:52am
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balunasj
:
weld treats the archetypes as there own module with
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09:52am
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balunasj
:
t/b/t
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09:52am
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balunasj
:
here is the truck pom - http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/weld/archetypes/trunk/pom.xml
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09:52am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: we use it, so projects created by archetypes should be using too
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09:53am
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balunasj
:
not sure I agree with that
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09:53am
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alexsmirnov
:
It would be special RenderKit that uses buttons only for controls, thoughh my attempt to create button-based tab panel finished with ugly view
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09:53am
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balunasj
:
we use it for project integrity and to make sure all our different parts align
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09:53am
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balunasj
:
I don't believe we should enforce that on our users apps.  or make them change it.
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09:54am
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balunasj
:
perhaps a different archetype for this incase some does.
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09:54am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: so we'll need extended archetype that's customized for RF?
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09:54am
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balunasj
:
for the core component, and dev example I could see version matrix use because it is mostly used for project development
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09:55am
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balunasj
:
but if we provide archetypes to help users get started with their own applications we should not tie it to our version-matrix
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09:55am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: dev. examples will be created from archetype and I hope we can reuse weld archetype. this seems like a requirement for version-matrix support
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09:56am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: it depends if you are making archetypes for components and dev examples that will be incorperated into RF project, or archetypes for users to quickstart their apps.
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09:56am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: at least, we need to be 100% sure existing archetypes are not ok for users and team before creating one
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09:57am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: missing the connection between previous statement and " his seems like a requirement for version-matrix support"
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09:57am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: we'll have minimal required configuration in 4.x (no filters, etc...). so usual JSF application archetype can work very well
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09:57am
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balunasj
:
ok
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09:59am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: to create dev. examples we'll need archetype. and dev. examples are using version matrix, so for created project it is good if it can use version-matrix
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09:59am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: for creation of dev example I'm fine with tieing to version matrix.
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10:00am
]
balunasj
:
nbelaevski: but not for extending those for user archetypes
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10:00am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: my thoughts on this are similar to the difference between dev sample and component gallery
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10:01am
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balunasj
:
the requirements on a dev example are different than for a user quick-start archetype
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10:01am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: requirements can be different to component project also
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10:02am
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balunasj
:
different to what?
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10:02am
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balunasj
:
Not sure what you are saying is different that?
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10:02am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: component project integrated in RF and end-user component project
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10:03am
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balunasj
:
sure I could see that as well.
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10:03am
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balunasj
:
our priority for ALPHA2 are the achetypes that we require for development
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10:03am
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balunasj
:
the other archetypes can wait for later releases I think
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10:04am
]
balunasj
:
i.e. alpha 2 primary requirement is to be ready for full scale component migration and time box releases.
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10:04am
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nbelaevski
:
imho, CDK component archetype would be good to have also. this is to encourage users start playing with new CDK
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10:05am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: but perhaps at this early stage they could use the dev component archetype - the main difference is going to be
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10:05am
]
balunasj
:
dependancies and usabilty at this point.
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10:06am
]
nbelaevski
:
balunasj: yes, that's so
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10:06am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: ok - I see the point and agree
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10:06am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: ok cool.
[
10:06am
]
balunasj
:
I think we need to take a break and then come back and wrap up CDK talks
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10:07am
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balunasj
:
lets meet back here in 5-10 min
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10:07am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: ok
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10:07am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: sound good