balunasj
:
Hi all here is the agenda for today
[
11:02am
]
balunasj
:
http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFacesTeamMeetingAgenda7-20-2010
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11:03am
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ppitonak
:
hello
[
11:03am
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balunasj
:
ok all - lets get started
[
11:03am
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balunasj
:
so first - we are going to be releasing M1 today!!
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11:03am
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abelevich
:
good
[
11:04am
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balunasj
:
We are mostly ready, and just have some uploading and stuff like that.
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11:04am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: and I will be finishing that after the meeting
[
11:04am
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balunasj
:
One part I do want to understand better - mainly to make sure we are on the same page is the AS 6 integration issues.
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11:05am
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bdlink joined the chat room.
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11:05am
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balunasj
:
prabhatwaa: ppitonak : so I know we have the guava issue.
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11:06am
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prabhatwaa
:
balunasj, yes and Mango issue too just kidding
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11:06am
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balunasj
:
Have we been able to narrow down the other error to the JSF version issue?
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11:06am
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balunasj
:
lol
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11:06am
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balunasj
:
in other words when we announce
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11:07am
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balunasj
:
I'm going to immediately add a note about using M1 with AS 6
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11:07am
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bernard_labno joined the chat room.
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11:07am
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balunasj
:
( I'll update release note as well )
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11:07am
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balunasj
:
bernard_labno: Hi!
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11:07am
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bernard_labno
:
hello
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11:07am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
bernard_labno, Hi Bernard!
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11:07am
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bernard_labno
:
hi ilya
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11:07am
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balunasj
:
prabhatwaa: so what steps do users need to follow to get showcase working on AS6
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11:08am
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balunasj
:
or core demo?
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11:08am
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lfryc
:
balunasj: remove guava.jar and replace JSF libs
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11:08am
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prabhatwaa
:
balunasj, ^^ yes
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11:09am
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balunasj
:
lfryc: ok that is it good.  Are you following the wiki page for changing the JSF lib in AS6?  or just doing it on your own?
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11:09am
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lfryc
:
balunasj: (there is equivalent for replacing JSF libs - context.param WAR_BUNDLES_JSF_LIBS)
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11:10am
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lfryc
:
balunasj: I didn't follow it exactly, can give a try
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11:10am
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balunasj
:
lfryc: if you have a little time after meeting that would be good.
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11:10am
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lfryc
:
balunasj: sure
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11:10am
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balunasj
:
I would rather point to an existing wiki than write up the instructions in the note.
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11:11am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: You may need to do the same on download page, or perhaps link to
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11:11am
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balunasj
:
my note
[
11:11am
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•
balunasj
 
we need a better way to handle release-notes - creating jira....
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11:13am
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balunasj
:
prabhatwaa: were there other issues you wanted to bring up besides the AS 6, and stage/maven issues?
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11:14am
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prabhatwaa
:
balunasj, yes..one more
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11:14am
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prabhatwaa
:
some components get added to the mix a day or two before code freeze which does not give us enough time to add that component into our tools
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11:15am
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prabhatwaa
:
that means that a component may not get fully testd
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11:15am
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prabhatwaa
:
it's fine as long as we understand that newly added components may not be fool-proof
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11:16am
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balunasj
:
prabhatwaa: I think that is a good point
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11:16am
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balunasj
:
abelevich brought up having a
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11:16am
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balunasj
:
pre-release freeze - much like you prabhatwaa suggested before.
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11:17am
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balunasj
:
Perhaps a week before actual freeze, create a mock release, and have feature freeze then
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11:17am
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prabhatwaa
:
balunasj, I don't think we need to add more process to it..just understand that some components from prevous milestone release may not be full tested
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11:17am
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balunasj
:
Allow for stablization, bugs, test prep etx.
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11:17am
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prabhatwaa
:
balunasj, that's the advantage of M* release..if there is a problem, you fix within a month
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11:18am
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balunasj
:
prabhatwaa: exactly, but I think having a few days to sanity check it, prior to freeze is still good thing
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11:19am
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prabhatwaa
:
balunasj, then you are in a way shortening release cycle less than one month
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11:19am
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prabhatwaa
:
balunasj, and overhead of code freeze, staging verification is not worth the effort IMO
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11:20am
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balunasj
:
prabhatwaa: hmm, ok I'll think on it more.
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11:20am
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prabhatwaa
:
balunasj, the staging verification I talked about to verify last mess we had to deal with
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11:20am
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prabhatwaa
:
balunasj, ok , sure
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11:20am
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balunasj
:
however we ( alexsmirnov nbelaevski abelevich etc.. ) talked about having a mid cycle internal release ( only when automated ) for you guys to work with as well.
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11:21am
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balunasj
:
prabhatwaa: but either way - I understand your point about later components into mix
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11:21am
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prabhatwaa
:
balunasj, k
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11:21am
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balunasj
:
anything else related to M1?  From anyone?
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11:22am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: I'm assuming this is not ready https://jira.jboss.org/browse/RFPL-167
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11:22am
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jbossbot
:
[RFPL-167] CDK: publish schemas on the Internet [Open, Major, Alexander Smirnov] https://jira.jboss.org/browse/RFPL-167
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11:22am
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balunasj
:
I have not seen updates related ( may have missed thought )
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11:27am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: updates on this one?
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11:29am
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balunasj
:
ok - I'll have to catch up with him later
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11:29am
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balunasj
:
The other issues in RFPL for M1 are related to release process
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11:29am
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balunasj
:
lets move on to M2
[
11:30am
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balunasj
:
We just had a planning meeting for M2, and discussed some updates.
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11:30am
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balunasj
:
Unfortuantly we did not get through as must as hoped.
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11:31am
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balunasj
:
Everyone should have enough on there plate, from M1 issues that slipped like unit tests, dev samples, etc...
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11:31am
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balunasj
:
We will try to wrap up more of the planning and discuss in more detail at the staff meeting
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11:31am
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balunasj
:
FYI - I'll be out the rest of the week
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11:32am
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alexsmirnov
:
No, schemas has not been published. Actually, they are not ready for publishing.
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11:32am
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balunasj
:
As discussed CDK, and core stabilization are priorities, as is finalizing the build
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11:33am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: yup - I remember from discussions for A2.  Were you able to add in jira's for the changes needed to make them ready?
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11:33am
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alexsmirnov
:
That's already there
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11:33am
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balunasj
:
ok
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11:33am
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balunasj
:
good
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11:33am
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alexsmirnov
:
https://jira.jboss.org/browse/RF-8951
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11:33am
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jbossbot
:
[RF-8951] Change CDK namespaces to Jboss public schema repository. [Open, Major, Alexander Smirnov] https://jira.jboss.org/browse/RF-8951
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11:34am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: so please shift these issues to M2
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11:34am
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alexsmirnov
:
It's already tagged for M2
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11:34am
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balunasj
:
The RFPL issue?
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11:34am
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balunasj
:
RFPL-167
[
11:34am
]
jbossbot
:
[RFPL-167] CDK: publish schemas on the Internet [Open, Major, Alexander Smirnov] https://jira.jboss.org/browse/RFPL-167
[
11:37am
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bernard_labno
:
i have to go now, anybody does have any business with me?
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11:37am
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balunasj
:
bernard_labno: no, but I think ilya_shaikovsky already talked to you
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11:37am
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bernard_labno
:
yes
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11:37am
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balunasj
:
bernard_labno: thanks for the CDK updates, and issues - keep them coming
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11:38am
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bernard_labno
:
ok, bye all
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11:38am
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bernard_labno left the chat room.
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11:38am
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balunasj
:
ok onto M2
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11:38am
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balunasj
:
So In order for the CDK and core to stablize much more they need requirements and issues from the component developers.
[
11:39am
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balunasj
:
This mean that all of us need to review what our components need from CDK ( especially ) and create jira's as alexsmirnov has mentioned before.
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11:40am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: Is there anything you would like to add here?
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11:40am
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balunasj
:
or nbelaevski
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11:40am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: me - no for now
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11:41am
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nbelaevski
:
actually, I have core activities in this release, so I won't use CDK some time but I expect that abelevich Konstantin1 etc will provide good RFCs and bug reports
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11:42am
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alexsmirnov
:
Yes, constantin already caught the issue today
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11:42am
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balunasj
:
thanks Konstantin1
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11:43am
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balunasj
:
ok - so other priorities for M2 are Table rework with Alex and abelevich.  and several new components. 
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11:44am
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balunasj
:
btw - we also need to spend time reworking some components to use CDK.  That is where I would also like to see feedback to CDK.
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11:44am
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balunasj
:
nbelaevski: Are most of the issues for core "known" or are you looking for feedback there as well?
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11:45am
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nbelaevski
:
balunasj: I'm always open for feedback
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11:45am
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nbelaevski
:
any is welcome
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11:45am
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balunasj
:
[
11:45am
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balunasj
:
ok
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11:46am
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balunasj
:
The other thing that we need is everyone involved in the various design, and implementation discussions on the forums and wikis
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11:46am
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balunasj
:
For example the table rework, build updates, etc...
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11:46am
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balunasj
:
please take a look there.
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11:46am
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balunasj
:
when you have 30 min and post some thoughts.
[
11:47am
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balunasj
:
Until we have planning for M2 farther along that is all I have for now. 
[
11:47am
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balunasj
:
I'd like to get M1 released in an hour or two
[
11:48am
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ilya_shaikovsky
:
balunasj, I will take a few minutes break and we could go with release then
[
11:48am
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balunasj
:
does anyone have anything else?
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11:48am
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balunasj
:
ilya_shaikovsky: sure - I've got to promote and upload stuff
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11:48am
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alexsmirnov
:
balunasj : From the forum post, I see you prefer to have fine-grained t/b/t structures.
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11:49am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: I think it is not just me
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11:49am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: not as fine grained as before
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11:49am
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alexsmirnov
:
My point is that it's not necessary - tags and branches can be created anythere, including root tags/branches folders.
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11:49am
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balunasj
:
I could see the problem with variable # of t/b/t
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11:50am
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balunasj
:
in the approach that I think nbelaevski and I are proposing it is more stable and limited set of t/b/t
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11:50am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: you don't think that would be confusing?
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11:50am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: btw - I also like the idea of using svn:external
[
11:51am
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balunasj
:
to create an easy to use working copy.
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11:51am
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alexsmirnov
:
I suggest not to use t/b/t for modules, but make tags in root /tags folder.
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11:52am
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alexsmirnov
:
That lets create tag that contains any number of modules - so, if we missed proper place for t/b/t it will not be a problem.
[
11:52am
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alexsmirnov
:
For example, tag api/impl/tables together.
[
11:53am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: I understand your proposal, but I also don't see how you can tag a subset, and not make a mess of versioning and the /tags directory
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11:53am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: i.e the reason to tag /tables or /ui separately is to release it
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11:54am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: so if you are releaseing a point release, now you have to manage the version differences in the same tree as opposed to treating them
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11:54am
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balunasj
:
independently
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11:54am
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alexsmirnov
:
svn copy core/api http:.../tags/foo-123 ; svn copy core/impl http:.../tags/foo-123 ;svn copy core/ui/iterations http:.../tags/foo-123
[
11:54am
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cofeineSunshine left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[
11:54am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: right -  I get that.
[
11:55am
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balunasj
:
Now in lets say you release those
[
11:55am
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balunasj
:
and bump the version a point.
[
11:55am
]
balunasj
:
how to manage in /trunk
[
11:56am
]
alexsmirnov
:
That's the same for both cases. Even with t/b/t structure, you have to define dependencies explicitly - so, tag release requires custom parent pom in both cases.
[
11:58am
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: it seems more natural to me to have versions on a per t/b/t basis  and the inter module dependencies are explicit in the boms
[
11:58am
]
alexsmirnov
:
but, with the t/b/t , there is no place for it
[
11:59am
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: hmm, not sure what you mean - there is /bom for runtime, and /parent for everything else
[
12:01pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
modules could depend from others, so there should be place to describe these dependencies and how to build custom release.
[
12:02pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
some kind of the root project.
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12:03pm
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: any then how could that root project be tagged, and the versions of what are being referenced be tagged as well?  i.e. it seems like you would be trying to get specific drops out of a bowl of water, instead of having different cups
[
12:06pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
Have you check the https://svn.jboss.org/repos/richfaces/tags/4.0.0.20100715-M1 ? that's whole M1 tag with all release modules.
[
12:07pm
]
balunasj
:
looking
[
12:08pm
]
balunasj
:
using the externals
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12:08pm
]
balunasj
:
I'll need to checkout to see
[
12:08pm
]
balunasj
:
can you post the externals?
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12:08pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
I mean that you may need to have a small/medium/large cups. The water can be taken by any volume, so I don't see necessety to divide boul in advance.
[
12:09pm
]
balunasj
:
see - aren't metaphors fun
[
12:09pm
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: you may be starting to convince me.....
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12:10pm
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: how would you enforce some things like cross and circular dependencies?
[
12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
svn propget svn:externals https://svn.jboss.org/repos/richfaces/tags/4.0.0.20100715-M1
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12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/commons/tags/richfaces-commons-4.0.0.20100715-M1 commons
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12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/cdk/tags/richfaces-cdk-4.0.0.20100715-M1 cdk
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12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/build/bom/tags/richfaces-bom-4.0.0.20100715-M1 build/bom
[
12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/core/tags/richfaces-core-4.0.0.20100715-M1 core
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12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/ui/core/tags/richfaces-ui-core-4.0.0.20100715-M1 ui/core
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12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/ui/iteration/tags/richfaces-ui-iteration-4.0.0.20100715-M1 ui/iteration
[
12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/ui/misc/tags/richfaces-ui-misc-4.0.0.20100715-M1 ui/misc
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12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/ui/output/tags/richfaces-ui-output-4.0.0.20100715-M1 ui/output
[
12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/ui/dist/tags/richfaces-ui-dist-4.0.0.20100715-M1 ui/dist
[
12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/archetypes/richfaces-archetype-simpleapp/tags/richfaces-archetype-simpleapp-4.0.0.20100715-M1 archetypes/richfaces-archetype-simpleapp
[
12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/examples/core-demo/tags/richfaces-core-demo-4.0.0.20100715-M1 examples/core-demo
[
12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/examples/richfaces-showcase/tags/richfaces-showcase-4.0.0.20100715-M1 examples/richfaces-showcase
[
12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
^/root/docs/tags/richfaces-docs-4.0.0.20100715-M1 docs
[
12:10pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
svn propget svn:externals https://svn.jboss.org/repos/richfaces/tags/4.0.0.20100715-M1
[
12:10pm
]
balunasj
:
thanks - did not think to use URL
[
12:11pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
The externals links visible for svn client only ...
[
12:12pm
]
balunasj
:
yeah - that is one problem with it
[
12:12pm
]
balunasj
:
http://fisheye.jboss.org/browse/RichFaces/tags/4.0.0.20100715-M1
[
12:12pm
]
balunasj
:
You don't know what you are getting into until it is checked out, or you double check the props
[
12:12pm
]
balunasj
:
so two points:
[
12:13pm
]
balunasj
:
1)ow would you enforce some things like cross and circular dependencies?
[
12:13pm
]
balunasj
:
2) How would we create a custom ( tagged and repeatable ) build containing only a sub-set of components?
[
12:14pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
Yes, externals are limited. That's why I more like solid trunk folder, and make tags from it - for the full or partial releases ( by copy included only modules into tag ), if necessary
[
12:15pm
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: so if we went with one trunk  - why use externals at all?
[
12:15pm
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: also do you know if IDE can refactor across a project based on the svn:external?
[
12:16pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
1) should be maintained by Maven. If any module depended from the others, Maven will not pass 'release' goal.
[
12:16pm
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: i.e. if we build using externals and refactored across it, and then checked in the results?
[
12:17pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
Ide ( at least, Eclipse with subversion ) works with externals.
[
12:18pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
I suggest to use externals only if necessary - if some module really need separate release cycle.
[
12:18pm
]
balunasj
:
1) That is one concern - is that only caught when deploying ( but to be honest that is similar ).
[
12:18pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
The global parent is one of it.
[
12:19pm
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: yup, and checkstyle, and shade
[
12:19pm
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balunasj
:
they should almost never change
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12:19pm
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alexsmirnov
:
sure.
[
12:19pm
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ppitonak left the chat room. (Remote host closed the connection)
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12:19pm
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balunasj
:
sandbox as well - defined as "not released"
[
12:20pm
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: I really need to work on M1 release!
[
12:20pm
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: can you just summarize on the forum post, and we can continue there.
[
12:21pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
sandbox, QA tests and other internal projects that are not supposed to be included in release,should be left outside of trunk
[
12:21pm
]
balunasj
:
Specifically I like to see a pseudo code of how to package ( tagged and repeatable ) a release with a limited set of components.
[
12:21pm
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: agree
[
12:22pm
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balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: sorry - got to get to the release - will talk later
[
12:22pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
Ok, but that is really point of the first message.
[
12:22pm
]
balunasj
:
alexsmirnov: I think how we discussed here is clearer to me
[
12:22pm
]
balunasj
:
[
12:22pm
]
balunasj
:
and perhaps to others
[
12:23pm
]
alexsmirnov
:
Ok.