0 ### Log session started at Tue Jul 27 15:03:32 2010 ###
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24 [18:01:22] <nbelaevski> hello all
2 [18:01:49] <@balunas_busy> nbelaevski: Hi Nick
37 [18:01:54] balunas_busy [~balunasj@redhat/jboss/balunasj] is now known as balunasj
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24 [18:02:59] <nbelaevski> let's get started
24 [18:03:06] <nbelaevski> meeting agenda is posted here: http://community.jboss.org/wiki/RichFacesTeamMeetingAgenda7-27-2010
37 [18:03:16] Marauder [~x3User255@93.191.103.3] is now known as ilya_shaikovsky
24 [18:03:22] <nbelaevski> ilya_shaikovsky: hi Ilya
25 [18:03:49] <@balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: Hi
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24 [18:04:28] <nbelaevski> prabhaat: pyaschenko: hello
25 [18:04:47] <ilya_shaikovsky> hello All!
24 [18:05:24] <nbelaevski> the first point is post-M1 release topic
24 [18:05:36] <nbelaevski> users are trying M1, but have problems with setting up
24 [18:06:01] <nbelaevski> that's because dependencies are missing or incorrect versions of libraries are used
24 [18:06:20] <nbelaevski> ilya_shaikovsky: wdyt? how can we improve the situation - blog article?
2 [18:06:25] <prabhaat> nbelaevski, hello
24 [18:07:48] <nbelaevski> prabhaat: hi Prabhat
2 [18:08:05] <ilya_shaikovsky> nbelaevski, sounds good.
24 [18:08:16] <nbelaevski> ilya_shaikovsky: ok, please do
25 [18:08:35] <alexsmirnov> hi all !
25 [18:08:40] <ilya_shaikovsky> alexsmirnov, Hi Alex!
25 [18:08:41] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: Hi alex
24 [18:08:47] <nbelaevski> ilya_shaikovsky: also please let me know if there are any problems reported for M1 
24 [18:08:56] <nbelaevski> alexsmirnov: hi Alex
2 [18:09:02] <prabhaat> nbelaevski, when I tried building core-demo from tag, I was able to after bits were moved to live maven repo
2 [18:09:08] <@balunasj> ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski : I have not caught up on emails, and forums - what exactly is the issue with M1?
2 [18:09:45] <@balunasj> prabhaat: is that related to the dependency issue nbelaevski and ilya_shaikovsky are discussing?
24 [18:09:53] <nbelaevski> balunasj: users are deploying apps with wrong dependencies
2 [18:10:21] <@balunasj> nbelaevski: because of BOM issue?
24 [18:10:43] <nbelaevski> balunasj: looks like users are not using Maven at all
24 [18:10:56] <nbelaevski> balunasj: so BOM doesn't make sense
2 [18:11:03] <@balunasj> nbelaevski: ah ic
2 [18:11:14] <@balunasj> nbelaevski: is this the main forum thread for this?
25 [18:11:15] <@balunasj> http://community.jboss.org/wiki/PrioritizedlistofRichFacescomponentsimplementationin4x
2 [18:11:22] <@balunasj> nbelaevski: I'll review offline
24 [18:11:32] <nbelaevski> http://community.jboss.org/thread/154502?tstart=0
24 [18:11:40] <nbelaevski> http://community.jboss.org/thread/154628?tstart=0
2 [18:11:44] <@balunasj> nbelaevski: we'll need our dependency listing for sure.
24 [18:11:49] <nbelaevski> here are they
24 [18:11:53] <nbelaevski> balunasj: agree
2 [18:11:57] <@balunasj> nbelaevski: ok thanks - I'll review and comment off line.
24 [18:13:13] <nbelaevski> ok, then we can start with M2 topic unless there's nothing for M1
24 [18:14:47] <nbelaevski> so, last week we've completed planning for M2 and now started implementation
24 [18:15:13] <nbelaevski> there are some topics under question like build system redesign, but most items are clear 
2 [18:15:49] <prabhaat> nbelaevski, build system redesign is priority I
32 [18:15:54] balunasj just reading build system updates....
25 [18:16:33] <alexsmirnov> build system already upset me. I guess that I spent whole workweek or more in attempts to organize working environment.
24 [18:17:01] <nbelaevski> prabhaat: yes. balunasj: I'd agree with alexsmirnov's latest thoughts on forums
25 [18:17:19] <alexsmirnov> I tried to use branches in modules, svn:externals, git-svn and mercurial.
25 [18:17:21] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: I'll comment today on the forums, but I am leaning towards your ideas, for now, as long as we remain flexible .
24 [18:17:24] <nbelaevski> and keep a single trunk per all releasable modules
25 [18:17:26] <alexsmirnov> Nothing works well.
25 [18:17:37] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: you mean working with how it is now?
25 [18:18:21] <alexsmirnov> Yes, to deal with current structure. as you gouing out of single module, it becomes a problem.
25 [18:18:54] <alexsmirnov> I think that user concern with M1 is direct consequence.
25 [18:19:09] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: The dependency issue?
25 [18:19:29] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: I think that is plain issue with not stating dependencies for non maven env?
25 [18:19:48] <@balunasj> as I said before I went on PTO after working with M1 and respin - I think simplifing is important for sure.
25 [18:19:53] <alexsmirnov> partially. we have too many jars that come from separate modules.
2 [18:20:46] <@balunasj> nbelaevski: did you want to discuss other things now in meeting, or shall we just start on build updates?
2 [18:21:06] <@balunasj> nbelaevski: I have a feeling it could take a while and would not want to push out other items you wanted to cover.
24 [18:21:17] <nbelaevski> balunasj: thanks Jay
24 [18:21:26] <nbelaevski> I wanted to cover dev. status shortly
24 [18:21:52] <nbelaevski> and ask you to upgrade MyFaces to 2.0.1 release, so that I can start integration tasks
25 [18:21:53] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: We will discuss it thought, and can finalize today/tomorrow.
2 [18:22:16] <@balunasj> nbelaevski: You mean in the richfaces-parent?  sure.
25 [18:22:30] <@balunasj> Did you assign the jira to me?
24 [18:22:36] <nbelaevski> balunasj: yes, thanks
24 [18:22:43] <nbelaevski> balunasj: I'll create JIRA
25 [18:23:17] <@balunasj> ok
24 [18:24:00] <nbelaevski> and now for status
24 [18:24:34] <nbelaevski> amarkhel: pyaschenko: Konstantin1: alexsmirnov: are we on track with the current plans?
24 [18:24:44] <nbelaevski> any concerns/issues?
24 [18:24:51] <nbelaevski> ilya_shaikovsky: ^
2 [18:25:59] <alexsmirnov> nbelaevski: I wrote out detail CDK issues and going on them.
24 [18:26:19] <nbelaevski> alexsmirnov: great, I saw that in JIRA
2 [18:26:23] <ilya_shaikovsky> nbelaevski, for now not all are documented but seems there are no critical questions.. we discussing things as need and I'm working on wiki's.
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24 [18:26:36] <nbelaevski> ilya_shaikovsky: good
32 [18:26:48] balunasj ilya_shaikovsky planning on reviewing this week - since out on PTO
25 [18:27:40] <alexsmirnov> Leonardo from MyFaces team implemented state saving in UIData, so I'll switch to iteration components after CDK.
24 [18:27:50] <nbelaevski> amarkhel: Konstantin1: pyaschenko: ping
24 [18:27:58] <nbelaevski> alexsmirnov: sounds good
24 [18:28:19] <nbelaevski> alexsmirnov: I'll need your help in reviewing legacy fwk 3.x code
2 [18:29:27] <pyaschenko> nbelaevski: working on autocomplete (tokens), discussing with Ilya about features and user's event handlers
2 [18:30:25] <amarkhel> nbelaevski: work on server code for autocomplete and fix issues related to panels
2 [18:32:47] <Konstantin1> nbelaevski: I am working on inputNumberSlider.
24 [18:33:19] <nbelaevski> ok, if there are no issues/concerns to discuss, then we can spend some time for build system discussion
24 [18:33:24] <nbelaevski> balunasj: ^
2 [18:33:35] <@balunasj> nbelaevski: ok thanks nick
24 [18:33:41] <nbelaevski> btw, I've added task for Maven3 into JIRA
25 [18:33:46] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: With the pot from
25 [18:33:47] <@balunasj> forums
24 [18:34:05] <nbelaevski> there were some issues with checkstyle - I'm going to investigate & resolve
25 [18:34:06] <@balunasj> http://community.jboss.org/message/553531#553531
25 [18:34:43] <@balunasj> What is the need to link to the parent, and build ( checkstyle, shade) from /trunk.
25 [18:35:03] <@balunasj> They should be referred to by release, and only worked on by very few
2 [18:35:20] <alexsmirnov> nbelaevski I don't see Maven 3 task
24 [18:35:36] <nbelaevski> alexsmirnov: https://jira.jboss.org/browse/RFPL-721
25 [18:35:38] <jbossbot> jira [RFPL-721] Try Maven 3 for project build and resolve possible problems [Open, Major, Nick Belaevski] https://jira.jboss.org/browse/RFPL-721
25 [18:35:54] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: Yeah, that is one we need to aim for as well
25 [18:36:03] <@balunasj> it will help QE and prabhaat alot with testing
2 [18:36:25] <@balunasj> nbelaevski: I had a maven 3 task in there as well - looing...
24 [18:36:46] <nbelaevski> balunasj: didn't find it, please give me a link...
32 [18:37:01] balunasj looking...
2 [18:41:23] <@balunasj> nbelaevski: :-( can't seem to find it now - perhaps only in my personal TODO list
25 [18:41:28] <@balunasj> anyway
24 [18:41:45] <nbelaevski> balunasj: np, we have one now  :)
25 [18:41:49] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: Qhat about question above about links from trunk?
25 [18:44:17] <alexsmirnov> Try to checkout https://svn.jboss.org/repos/richfaces/trunk. It already contains flat project layout assembled by svn:externals.
25 [18:45:18] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: ok - I'll do that.  But in the forums you are not suggesting having everything in /trunk be externals.
25 [18:45:35] <prabhaat> alexsmirnov, I may be stating the obvious but svn:externals are hard to setup in eclipse so what you suggested is a workaround for the problem but not a good solution
25 [18:45:47] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: I'm just wondering about the links in your latest port under /trunk to parent and build.
25 [18:45:47] <alexsmirnov> Unfortunately, making working branch or merging changes to tag/branch not possible with externals.
25 [18:45:57] <prabhaat> alexsmirnov, I htink you meant this as a temp solution only, right?
25 [18:46:55] <alexsmirnov> this is only test for using externals.
25 [18:46:59] <@balunasj> I prefer to use externals only when needed - not sure it is needed for parent and build items.
25 [18:47:02] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: ok
25 [18:48:37] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: so in your post here http://community.jboss.org/message/553317#553317  the links in /trunk are just to connivence correct, but really needed?
25 [18:48:40] <alexsmirnov> balunasj : because parent and build seems relatively stable, externals would works for them. They are not Java projects, so you don't need them in eclipse.
25 [18:49:43] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: I think we are on the same page with them, just want to make sure.  We could keep them separate ( no links ) correct.
25 [18:50:05] <@balunasj> want to make sure not a dependency on them in that locations ( i.e. no relative paths )
25 [18:51:02] <alexsmirnov> Yes, they are not necessary in trunk at all. Externals links would be convinient for checking in whole code base or making distribution package.
25 [18:51:28] <alexsmirnov> By default, stable projects should be downloaded from Jboss Maven repo.
25 [18:51:42] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: ok good we agree on that :-)
25 [18:52:07] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: The other question I had is about work flow for creating custom tags from the
25 [18:52:15] <@balunasj> structure you propose.
25 [18:52:37] <@balunasj> I see two possible ( but not immediate required cases)
25 [18:52:48] <@balunasj> 1) Point release of a subset
25 [18:53:10] <@balunasj> 2) custom packaging with limited components included
25 [18:53:35] <@balunasj> I'm assuming branching --> modifications --> tag
25 [18:54:32] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: ?
25 [18:54:54] <alexsmirnov> Both cases are possible. For subset release, you just copy desired projects into the tag ( not a whole trunk ), and, maybe, create custom root pom, just for build.
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25 [18:55:37] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: do you think those changes should be done in branch, then tag, or directly in tag?
25 [18:56:26] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: and in case of point release you would want other parts of project to refer to latest version. ( although not sure this is priority at this point )
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25 [18:57:34] <alexsmirnov> For the second case, I suggest to use profiles in ui, so components will be grouped by logic instead of physical structure.
25 [18:58:19] <alexsmirnov> SVN doesn't diverse branches and tags.
25 [18:58:35] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: "profiles" - explain please
25 [18:58:46] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: svntag/branch - I know - but discussing workflow
25 [19:00:05] <@balunasj> prabhaat: alexsmirnov : we also need to handle items that are tagged, but not released
25 [19:00:15] <@balunasj> like QE items, etc...
25 [19:00:17] <alexsmirnov> No, we have separate folders - input, output, iteration and so on. I suggest to have profiles with the same names in ui/pom.xml that include groups of corresponding components.
25 [19:00:41] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: ok mvn profiles - understood
25 [19:00:48] <alexsmirnov> sNo/Now/
25 [19:01:07] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: I got ya :-)
25 [19:01:35] <alexsmirnov> profiles is more flexible - you can select input+panels, panels+iteration+core and so on.
25 [19:01:56] <@balunasj> ok so profiles allow for inclusion, exclusion of components.
25 [19:01:57] <@balunasj> ok
25 [19:03:19] <@balunasj> what about 1) from above - how to have sub projects refer to different version?  ( need to think more on this myself )
25 [19:03:44] <@balunasj> It may be - that if we require this we should at that point be breaking in t/b/t
25 [19:05:19] <alexsmirnov> The 1) is a problem for any case, even in the current structure. Because we use 'bom' projects, I guess that subset release will require its own bom, that points to stable dependencies.
25 [19:06:33] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: that is the good thing about current is that it support this nicely - because they are separate projects they can be referred to easily by
24 [19:06:44] <nbelaevski> we can retag the whole project from tag and then update versions/code only in some modules 
25 [19:06:56] <@balunasj> specific version
24 [19:07:03] <nbelaevski> that's for the case when we do not use links at all
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25 [19:07:08] <alexsmirnov> As the last resort, we can extract project then often requires subset releases into separate module and link it from trunk with svn:externals.
25 [19:08:28] <@balunasj> I'm thinking that will be a fringe case at this point ( my main concerm what I said before
25 [19:08:48] <@balunasj> were we release, and a critical issue is found and instead of re-releasing everything as a SR
25 [19:09:06] <@balunasj> we release a point release
25 [19:10:23] <@balunasj> ok - let me write up a full ( or more complete ) example of the structure - based on your structure.
25 [19:10:33] <@balunasj> and I'll post to forum today, with any other comments.
25 [19:10:44] <alexsmirnov> balunasj: don't see the difference how to reffered dependend projects in the current structure. In any case, you have to describe all versions of all projects manually.
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25 [19:11:29] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: true, but one is hidden in subprojects, then other is part of the tagging.
25 [19:11:34] <@balunasj> etc...
25 [19:11:42] <@balunasj> there were two other points/questions
25 [19:11:43] <alexsmirnov> balunasj: another thing - we have never done subset releases before, nor have requested for them.
25 [19:12:03] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: I know - but we are not allowed to do SP releases any longer
25 [19:12:32] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: and so with future we will need a way to handle issues like this.
25 [19:12:44] <@balunasj> anyone two other questions to think about
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25 [19:13:14] <@balunasj> A) how to handle, where to put, items that need to be tagged but not part of release ( QE stuff mainly ))
25 [19:14:09] <@balunasj> B) How to enforce, manage cross project dependencies that will only show when we try to release, and /or split in future to 1-2 t/b/t
25 [19:14:13] <alexsmirnov> balunasj : I think it will be much better to keep such projects - QA tests, sandbox out of trunk.
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25 [19:14:37] <alexsmirnov> in the current root or 'modules' folder.
25 [19:15:19] <alexsmirnov> For QA, separete svn repo would be even better. As I've seen, they already have internal repo.
25 [19:16:26] <@balunasj> sandbox does not need to be tagged, and can be left out for sure
25 [19:16:31] <alexsmirnov> Cross-project dependencies perfectly seen from the Maven dependency graphs or reports.
25 [19:17:26] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: true - plus just remembered about plugin that can check that
25 [19:17:46] <@balunasj> prabhaat: for QE items you need them tagged with release right
25 [19:17:51] <@balunasj> ?
25 [19:18:05] <@balunasj> alexsmirnov: prabhaat : but agree would not be in distribution
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25 [19:19:23] <alexsmirnov> balunasj: Also, I think that using more strick trunk policy would be a better way to avoid SR releases.
25 [19:19:53] <@balunasj_> alexsmirnov: part of that will be the dev branches
25 [19:19:59] <@balunasj_> and making sure all use it
25 [19:20:06] <alexsmirnov> strict.
25 [19:20:44] <@balunasj_> ok
25 [19:22:04] <@balunasj_> so lets wrap up the meeting, and we'll take it to the forums.  Any other points we need to work out now in chat?
24 [19:22:16] <nbelaevski> I'm not sure on QE items. if they are not tagged, we can loose the ability to run their application with older RF versions
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24 [19:22:43] <nbelaevski> e.g. new release adds compile-time dependencies on newly added classes
24 [19:23:04] <nbelaevski> and we want to run the app at older RF version, it won't compile
2 [19:23:33] <@balunasj_> nbelaevski: agree - I think they should be tagged, but just not packaged in dist.
2 [19:23:44] <alexsmirnov> nbelaevski: they would be tagged, I only meant that they shouldn't be included with release tag or distribution.
24 [19:23:59] <nbelaevski> ok, thanks. just wanted to be sure
25 [19:24:06] <@balunasj_> alexsmirnov: different betweem release tag and normal tag/
25 [19:24:07] <alexsmirnov> balunasj: you first :-)
25 [19:24:08] <@balunasj_> ?
25 [19:24:44] <alexsmirnov> Sorry, you printed faster about QA tags.
25 [19:25:06] <@balunasj_> alexsmirnov: :-)
25 [19:25:24] <@balunasj_> prabhaat: do you have items you want tagged, and items you don't?
25 [19:25:35] <prabhaat> balunasj_, just a sec
25 [19:26:00] <prabhaat> balunasj_, I think all example apps that are stable would need to be tagged even if they are not in repo
25 [19:26:18] <alexsmirnov> I think we should clean tags folder ( move 3.x to archive ) and use names for tags, as it already in t/b/t modules : richfaces-parent-N, tests-M, richfaces-4.0.1...
25 [19:26:46] <prabhaat> balunasj_, repo -> maven repo
25 [19:27:05] <@balunasj_> prabhaat alexsmirnov: If we are going to tag them, then I think they should be in the same hierarchy.
25 [19:27:35] <@balunasj_> So perhaps the answer is a tests-sandbox ( not in /trunk ) and a /tests in /trunk
25 [19:27:48] <alexsmirnov> prabhaat : just move stable examples into trunk, so they will be included in distribution.
25 [19:27:59] <@balunasj_> the /trunk/tests would just not be in distribution.
25 [19:28:22] <alexsmirnov> all others will be repain in /root/examples.
25 [19:28:25] <prabhaat> alexsmirnov, yes, we already have that but I was refering to iteration-demo etc which I think are dev playground and that usually are not stable
25 [19:28:42] <alexsmirnov> remain . I doo to many typos today :-)
25 [19:29:11] <@balunasj_> so those should be /root/examples-sandbox
25 [19:29:25] <@balunasj_> ( not crazy about /root ) for name for this, but need to think on it
25 [19:29:45] <alexsmirnov> trunk should not contain any unstable code - that is important part of my proposal
25 [19:30:09] <@balunasj_> alexsmirnov: I agree - that is why only stable /tests and /examples should be there
25 [19:30:12] <alexsmirnov> balunasj_ I more like 'modules'
25 [19:30:36] <@balunasj_> alexsmirnov: I do to - more than root - but will think on it.
25 [19:31:04] <@balunasj_> non-stable tests, examples, etc.. should be in sandbox
25 [19:31:32] <alexsmirnov> balunasj_: not sure that we have to include tests into distribution.
25 [19:32:16] <alexsmirnov> QA tests. They are pretty special, and require a lot of resources to run with selenium.
25 [19:32:28] <@balunasj_> alexsmirnov: no - no  not in distribution, but in /trunk so they can all be tagged at same time
25 [19:32:36] <@balunasj_> distribution is controlled by assembler
25 [19:32:45] <alexsmirnov> ok.
25 [19:33:01] <@balunasj_> ok - I think we have covered enough for now.
25 [19:33:31] <@balunasj_> as I said - let me write up my thoughts on this, and I'll write up a more complete structure.
25 [19:33:32] <alexsmirnov> I think that the first step should be preserving already released tags.
25 [19:34:01] <@balunasj_> alexsmirnov: agree - that is a whole new discussion I think.
25 [19:34:23] <@balunasj_> Perhaps shifting to /branches/archive, or /branches/sandbox
25 [19:35:36] <alexsmirnov> I can move old ones into 'archive' and move alpha/M1 into tags. Similar to https://svn.jboss.org/repos/richfaces/tags/4.0.0.20100715-M1/ but with real folders instead of links.
24 [19:36:11] <nbelaevski> sorry guys I have to go
25 [19:36:18] <@balunasj_> alexsmirnov: can you write up changes you think ( just a quick summary )
25 [19:36:32] <@balunasj_> alexsmirnov: I can't review more now, and finish this
25 [19:36:39] <@balunasj_> other items for today
2 [19:36:48] <@balunasj_> nbelaevski: thanks nick
25 [19:36:53] <@balunasj_> we'll wrap up too
24 [19:37:16] <nbelaevski> ok, please send me mtg. log if you decide to continue :) so that I can catch it
25 [19:37:27] <@balunasj_> alexsmirnov: is that ok - I need to go as well
25 [19:37:31] <alexsmirnov> balunasj_: I think that I already wrote that. I can make summary on forum post or in email discussion.
25 [19:38:43] <@balunasj_> alexsmirnov: not of build structure, but of where the current tags, etc.. would be moved.
24 [19:38:51] <nbelaevski> bye everybody
34 [19:38:55] nbelaevski [~kvirc@93.191.103.3] has quit IRC: Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net