11 Replies Latest reply on Dec 25, 2008 8:20 PM by Ronald van Kuijk

    serialization or parallel in a tasknode

    Jeff Zheng Newbie

      In this scenario, a tasknode create several tasks
      but tasks must be created and prossessed with a order of serialization or parallel.
      How this can be done?
      could anyone tell me train of thought?
      Thx a lot.

        • 1. Re: serialization or parallel in a tasknode
          Ronald van Kuijk Master

          Model it in your process, multiple task-nodes, forks etc... otherwise you are creating a workflow within a workflow-node.... which sounds bad...

          • 2. Re: serialization or parallel in a tasknode
            Jeff Zheng Newbie

            i know i can model it in process.
            set it configurable, not model it in process.
            I aslo want to know if possible to make it like co-sign?

            • 3. Re: serialization or parallel in a tasknode
              Ronald van Kuijk Master

              co-signing is two different tasks.... in one way or another related to the same casedata....

              Making the number of tasks runtime configurable is possible with the foreachforkhandler.... Example is in the wiki. And searching the forum might help... some of these questions have been asked and answered before.

              Sometimes things have to be modeled in the process, not everything can be done within a tasknode, othewise it will be a kind of workflowengine in itself. jBPM 4 will be more flexible regarding tasks, but don't expect support for the complexity of deciding parallel/serial etc

              • 4. Re: serialization or parallel in a tasknode
                Jeff Zheng Newbie

                co-signing is creating serverl tasks in one tasknode, but runing order of them are specific.

                what i need is like it, except that the order can be specified.

                Could you give the example link to me, i could not find it, sorry.

                • 5. Re: serialization or parallel in a tasknode
                  Ronald van Kuijk Master

                   

                  co-signing is creating serverl tasks in one tasknode, but runing order of them are specific.

                  You can't as mentioned earlier

                  what i need is like it, except that the order can be specified.

                  Again... you can't.... Tasks carried out one after another (if that is important) are not, never the same.. The content of the task might be, but since the order is important, it is flow...

                  You can do two things...
                  - Wait for jBPM 4 and *hope* it will be so much more flexible that you can configure this
                  - Create the tasks with and give then e.g. a specific name or set a task-local variable and create your own tasklist manager that filters all tasks out that should not be visible yet....
                  Could you give the example link to me, i could not find it, sorry.

                  No, since there is none....


                  • 6. Re: serialization or parallel in a tasknode
                    Jeff Zheng Newbie

                    Thanks for you reply.



                    co-signing is creating serverl tasks in one tasknode, but runing order of them are specific.

                    Again... you can't.... Tasks carried out one after another (if that is important) are not, never the same.. The content of the task might be, but since the order is important, it is flow...

                    As you said, in this scenario, this tasks should only be regarded as serveral tasknode instead of one tasknode, which is diffrent from co-sign.




                    what i need is like it, except that the order can be specified.

                    You can do two things...
                    - Wait for jBPM 4 and *hope* it will be so much more flexible that you can configure this
                    - Create the tasks with and give then e.g. a specific name or set a task-local variable and create your own tasklist manager that filters all tasks out that should not be visible yet....

                    I dont know its possible to sort out several tasks in a process instance and make it runs as sub-process.



                    Could you give the example link to me, i could not find it, sorry.
                    No, since there is none....


                    I read ForEachForkAH example from Wiki, i am a little confused about that. It seems to create several node in parallel, not tasknode, so is different to co-sign. right?

                    • 7. Re: serialization or parallel in a tasknode
                      Ronald van Kuijk Master

                       

                      As you said, in this scenario, this tasks should only be regarded as serveral tasknode instead of one tasknode, which is diffrent from co-sign.


                      No, I disagree. 'Co-signing' for for me is having a set of people agree on a businessdocument. In real life (if it is a paper document) that can only be done in sequence. Electronically it can be done in parallel. Furthermore the 'co-signing PROCESS can be complicated. Maybe a manager has to sign to if e.g. just 2 out of 4 that have to sign agree and there is a stand-off. He also 'just signs' but it is part of a flow.

                      Can you explain to me why you need identical tasks in sequence? What is the relation between them? I get the feeling you need to start thinking out of the box and also take into account that current real-life processes *should not* be modelled as-is electronically. Always take business process redesign into account

                      I read ForEachForkAH example from Wiki, i am a little confused about that. It seems to create several node in parallel, not tasknode, so is different to co-sign. right?

                      Learn jBPM a little more in the basics... you can put anything in there, tasknodes, subprocesses.... you name it...

                      • 8. Re: serialization or parallel in a tasknode
                        Jeff Zheng Newbie

                         


                        No, I disagree. 'Co-signing' for for me is having a set of people agree on a businessdocument. In real life (if it is a paper document) that can only be done in sequence. Electronically it can be done in parallel. Furthermore the 'co-signing PROCESS can be complicated. Maybe a manager has to sign to if e.g. just 2 out of 4 that have to sign agree and there is a stand-off. He also 'just signs' but it is part of a flow.

                        Can you explain to me why you need identical tasks in sequence? What is the relation between them? I get the feeling you need to start <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outside_the_box">thinking out of the box</a> and also take into account that current real-life processes *should not* be modelled as-is electronically. Always take <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_process_reengineering">business process redesign</a> into account

                        in my understanding, co-signing maybe is that, in a tasknode, several same tasks are delivered paralel automatically to several person, tasknode will finish if all/one of/majority of person(s) agree/disagree.

                        why i need serialization or parallel same tasks is because in our system, one step of process will be approved by several person with sequence, but what they do are almost same. so i want to do it in one task-node, as co-signing does. If difficult to implement, i will change it to one person one task-node. Is it the correct way?

                        Thanks for your 2 link, i will read it and hopefully get useful information.


                        I read ForEachForkAH example from Wiki, i am a little confused about that. It seems to create several node in parallel, not tasknode, so is different to co-sign. right?

                        Learn jBPM a little more in the basics... you can put anything in there, tasknodes, subprocesses.... you name it...

                        I read JBPM doc, but i cant get any useful stuff in such situation.
                        Could you tell me more?

                        Thanks a lot!

                        • 9. Re: serialization or parallel in a tasknode
                          Ronald van Kuijk Master

                           

                          but what they do are almost same. so i want to do it in one task-node, as co-signing does. If difficult to implement, i will change it to one person one task-node. Is it the correct way?


                          Again... you say you *want* it, but what is the process requirement...AND you say *almost* the same... then it is definitely not the the same task.

                          What you could try (but then you hide the sequence/parallel) stuff in code (which I do strongly advise against, since you could as well create all task individually via the api from plain javacode) is to not create all tasks at the same moment. but if one task finishes, on the task-end event create another task for someone new.... Again this is really dirty and I would not use a processdefinition for this but the api on a low level

                          I read JBPM doc, but i cant get any useful stuff in such situation.
                          Could you tell me more?

                          Because what you want to do is dirty, uncommon, error-prone, hides 'flow' in javacode etc.... But I was not talking about this specific co-signing thing, I was talking about the fact that you could not see you could place a subprocess or something else in the foreachforkhandler....

                          • 10. Re: serialization or parallel in a tasknode
                            Jeff Zheng Newbie

                             


                            Because what you want to do is dirty, uncommon, error-prone, hides 'flow' in javacode etc.... But I was not talking about this specific co-signing thing, I was talking about the fact that you could not see you could place a subprocess or something else in the foreachforkhandler....


                            Thanks again.
                            I have read foreachforkhandler, but i could not make sense of it.
                            Can you explain the idea of it?

                            • 11. Re: serialization or parallel in a tasknode
                              Ronald van Kuijk Master

                              sorry, no... well, I could , but do not want to spend the time on it. If this is to complicated for you (it is much simpler than what you were trying to achieve), I am afraid many more questions will come out of it. Remember... this is my FREE time, I'm not a JBoss employee or trainer or whatever.

                              Conceptually the idea behind it is to be able to do http://www.workflowpatterns.com/patterns/control/multiple_instance/wcp14.php