7 Replies Latest reply on Feb 27, 2007 2:06 PM by Ronald van Kuijk

    [O/T] Bug/issue triage

    Ronald van Kuijk Master

      Guys,

      In the light of the question regarding open issues for 3.2 (and beyond) I'd like to propose something that is done within the Mozilla community on a regular basis. Go through the list of issues and triage them.

      Maybe we should pick (half) a day and all login on e.g. an irc channel or via aim/msn/skype-chat or whatever and work this out. I think if we point customers to the roadmap in the wiki, it should be a good one, and when dates shift (which is imo completely valid) that should be put in the jira as well.

      Thoughts?

        • 1. Re: [O/T] Bug/issue triage
          Edward Staub Expert

          Ronald,

          I'm not sure how much of this was in response to my earlier note of today (see third post in http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&t=100746)

          My main concern wasn't about not having a way to provide input into triage.

          My problem is that Jira is currently nearly useless as a way to understand what the current short-term roadmap is.

          With 32 outstanding issues and release scheduled for a week ago, I know that Jira is nowhere near the truth. But has no one made any progress on those issues, or are they just not keeping Jira up to date? I'm sure that the truth is some mix of these two things, but what's the ratio?

          Folks who have deadlines in the next several months need to know what they can expect, from which they can determine what they'll need to develop on their own.

          -Ed Staub

          • 2. Re: [O/T] Bug/issue triage
            Ronald van Kuijk Master

            The triage would imo not only be about the unconfirmed or unassigned (person or version) bugs, but also the ones allready assigned (to get the roadmap realistic, your problem)

            • 3. Re: [O/T] Bug/issue triage
              brittm Novice

              Ronald,

              I'm so glad you brought this up. I'm having to take the approach of 'just wait and see' what I get with a new release. Banking on what is projected in Jira has already bitten me (the description tag and one or two others that seem to keep being pushed to the next release). I'd love to have the time to peruse the beta's, but I'm too busy puting jBPM to work.

              --not complaining, just chiming in.

              -Britt

              • 4. Re: [O/T] Bug/issue triage
                Tom Baeyens Master

                i understand the concerns (at least i think). but i don't see a way on how to make open source development more predictable. at least not the amount of work we try to do with the amount of resources we got. we don't have management resources, which in our case works just fine because all the contributors are educated enough. it's efficient, but not so predictable.

                the biggest problem is that curently i make the selection of issues when i start working on them. so then i make a decision based on all the latest priorities.

                when i would do this before and document this properly in jira, priorities will probably shifted by the time i start working on them and the result would be the same kind of unpredictability but more overhead in jira.

                currently i use jira as a set of post its. i put them on the next release where i think i should have a look at them. if at that time i decide to postpone, i just move the release date. that is what is going to happen with the 3.2 jira issues. a number of them have already been fixed. another bunch will be postponed and a third part will still have to be fixed.

                anyways. thanks for the feedback (and your patience:-). at least i know better your concerns. i'll try to find ways on how we can make the dev process more predictable. i hope this background gave you some insight in the why the current model is not so predictable.

                • 5. Re: [O/T] Bug/issue triage
                  Edward Staub Expert

                  Tom,

                  My concern is more that I can't even see the present, not that I can't see the future.

                  I think you've resolved a lot of issues that aren't marked as resolved in Jira. Is that true? If so, could you mark them as resolved?

                  I think there are issues that are targetted for 3.2 that you are sure won't be resolved in 3.2. Is that true? If so, could you take them off of 3.2 in Jira?

                  I know that 16-Feb is not the 3.2 release date. While I understand the difficulty of holding to release dates, I'm sure that you have a better guesstimate in your mind than 16-Feb. Can you put it on the Jira?

                  I'm not asking for hour-by-hour currency, or for a great deal of accuracy in future plans. Neither of these is probably feasible. I'm just asking that you bring Jira up to date with what you do know once every week or two. Is that reasonable?

                  Thanks,
                  -Ed Staub

                  • 6. Re: [O/T] Bug/issue triage
                    Tom Baeyens Master

                     

                    "estaub" wrote:
                    Tom,

                    My concern is more that I can't even see the present, not that I can't see the future.

                    I think you've resolved a lot of issues that aren't marked as resolved in Jira. Is that true? If so, could you mark them as resolved?


                    yes. that is what i am doing now. it has been a while since i could really focus on finalizing the 3.2 release.

                    "estaub" wrote:

                    I think there are issues that are targetted for 3.2 that you are sure won't be resolved in 3.2. Is that true? If so, could you take them off of 3.2 in Jira?

                    also this is what i'm doing now. in the coming days i will be doing the triage and move, update and resolve the issues as appropriate.

                    "estaub" wrote:

                    I know that 16-Feb is not the 3.2 release date. While I understand the difficulty of holding to release dates, I'm sure that you have a better guesstimate in your mind than 16-Feb. Can you put it on the Jira?

                    I'm not asking for hour-by-hour currency, or for a great deal of accuracy in future plans. Neither of these is probably feasible. I'm just asking that you bring Jira up to date with what you do know once every week or two. Is that reasonable?


                    once a week is a good goal. that is certainly possible in periods where i focus on 3.2 developments. other weeks, i'm not sure if i'll remember to update the things that gradually start differing from the plan.

                    regards, tom.

                    • 7. Re: [O/T] Bug/issue triage
                      Ronald van Kuijk Master

                       

                      other weeks, i'm not sure if i'll remember to update the things that gradually start differing from the plan.


                      Mail them in 'steekwoorden' to me, I'll see if I can be of any help in keeping the roadmap tidy.