1 2 3 4 5 Previous Next 73 Replies Latest reply on Nov 26, 2011 10:21 AM by Arkadiusz Kaczyński Go to original post
      • 30. Re: Seam.Next discussion
        Esteve Aviles Newbie

        Hi,


        I should ask Seam3 people which are the orders given by Red Hat related to Seam3.


        I can not understand why did they do the effort of Weld and CDI, then built Seam3 very fast, and now they are trying to make a move not very clear, giving away the initial roadmap.


        Seam product family is great and other related projects like forge and its cloud integration and archillian can bring very much to the Java EE comunity.


        Please sell seam 3 as a AS7 (EAP6) related product as you did with Seam 2 ans EAP5, this is what people who is trying to earn money by developing high quality software is spectating.


        Thanks for listening to us.


        Regards


        Esteve


        • 31. Re: Seam.Next discussion
          Jeremiah Orr Newbie

          Several people have commented on the perceived requirement to use Maven with Seam 3. While I know you don't really need to use Maven to use Seam 3, I have trouble finding examples, documentation, etc for Eclipse/JBoss Tools users that have no interest in Maven.

          • 32. Re: Seam.Next discussion
            Thai Dang Vu Apprentice

            It'll better to make Seam security work with jsp, I think.

            • 33. Re: Seam.Next discussion
              Jason Porter Master

              We haven't had a use case for it yet. It should work with EL. What exactly are you looking for?

              • 34. Re: Seam.Next discussion
                Robert Morse Apprentice

                Marek Novotny wrote on Oct 03, 2011 05:56:



                Robert,
                JSF2 will come in Seam 2.3 and if you read my post about Seam 2 and current development, you should understand the slow moving.

                Anyway Seam 2 is opensource project and if you like to have it earlier than I can release, you always can help the Seam2 as community member. I welcome all help from community.

                The first step was and is done - Seam2 is in maven build system now. Also JPA adn Booking examples are migrated to JBoss AS 7. It is slow, but in progress!



                Marek,
                Firstly, I'd like to thank you for being the sole official supporter of Seam2.  I have read your blog, but it's been a few months since there's been an update.  I do understand that Seam is an open-source project.  However, in my mind, there are really two basic categories of users:  folks that own and update the code; and folks that make active use of it, providing comments and bug reports.  Without this second group, any open-source project basically becomes an 8th grade science fair project.  JSF2 support is critically important to me and others who use Seam2.  Since you're actively working on this, I don't know how any of us can really assist in that cause.  Perhaps the most frustrating part of this is not knowing what the approximate time frame is.  Without this information, some of us are uncertain whether to abandon the Seam ship, or stay the course.  I'd prefer the latter.  I think you'll agree that communication from the Seam team has been lacking.  If there are concrete areas that some of us can help with, please let us know.  If nothing else, please try to keep us informed of where JSF2 support is at.  Can you tell us what the current timeframe looks like?

                • 35. Re: Seam.Next discussion
                  Arbi Sookazian Master

                  Robert Morse wrote on Oct 04, 2011 09:45:


                  Can you tell us what the current timeframe looks like?


                  Unfortunately, they typically can't answer this question.  It depends on how many non-Redhat volunteers they can muster up to help (which is obviously a variable).


                  This is one of the reasons it's easier to plan with Microsoft .NET releases and your projects, etc.  Fixed resources.  How does SpringSource manage their internal development?  They have much more funding and more core devs AFAIK.


                  I've brought up several of my frustrations regarding Seam and CSP (customer support portal for EAP subscriptions) with Mark Little and it hasn't made much impact/effect.  I don't see massive adoption of Seam 3 or even Ceylon in the future (although I'd like to be an optimist).  How many large, high-volume, highly scalable web sites with HA/DR requirements are going to be backed by Seam 3 or Ceylon?  we'll see...

                  • 36. Re: Seam.Next discussion
                    Paul Dijou Newbie

                    Hi,


                    I agree with what a lot of people already say but, still, I will say it my own way.


                    I'm using Seam 2 in both personal and professional projects and I love it because where I was scared by EJB 2.x, Servlets and JSP stuff, Seam has provided me with all the tools I need to be really productive in J2EE development and I'm convinced that it is the main force of Seam 2 : download Seam JAR, run Seam-gen, deploy your application, that's done (a basic done, but still, it works).


                    Now Seam 3 which has been divided into several modules. For my personnal projects, not so much a problem, I can handle to use Maven and update each module time to time (a bit time consuming), but for my professional projects, it will become a real mess. It was hard enough to convince superiors to migrate from Seam 2.x to Seam 2.y so imagine if you had to do it for each module, having to proove there is no regression, no problems between modules depending on their version, ... It will become a nightmare.


                    Same for documentation : when a colleague ask for help, I check the table of content of the Seam 2 documentation and find it, with Seam 3, I will have to identify in which module the problem occurs (oh yeah, in Seam Faces), remember where is this module (oh yeah, Seam Faces is now in RichFaces), check it and hope to find it.


                    Also, I think a good migration from Seam 2 to Seam 3 is only possible if all the tools of Seam 2 are also in Seam 3, but still not the case, lots of stuff are still missing (or I don't have heard anything about), including Seam Application Framework (so great for small applications), Seam text (linked to RichFaces editor), PDF/XLS generation, ...


                    Fyi, if you look at this page, we can see that the Seam Application Framework was, at first, part of the Seam 3 modules but I guess developing Ceylon takes all his time to Gavin King. There is also a Document management module for PDF and XLS by the way.


                    Well, enough complains, I'm having fun trying Seam 3 in test projects but I'm convinced that it could only be massively adopted by users only if it keeps as simple as Seam 2 was (a unique bundle Jar file, a unique documentation, all the Seam 2 tools, and Seam Forge). Modularity is a good option for the ones who need it, but don't forget about users who want simplicity and productivity.

                    • 37. Re: Seam.Next discussion
                      marx3 Apprentice

                      About Maven: this tool isn't perfect, yet it simplifies some things, while it's harder to learn it's worth it. Seam team should publish Seam archetypes to be standard-compliant.
                      About GUI: PrimeFaces seems to be much more successful than RichFaces. Much easier to use. Much lighter. Competition is good but it would be nice to have PrimeFaces flawlessly with Seam
                      About Ceylon: I don't understand wasting time on another language
                      About Seam 3.1 beta: joining some modules is good idea

                      • 38. Re: Seam.Next discussion
                        Kenneth Christensen Novice
                        +1

                        I have to say, I agree with 95% of what people are saying about Seam 2 and 3.

                        I'm using Seam 2 and I'm not ready to take the jump to Seam 3, because the difference between Seam 2 and 3 is too big.

                        I'm really looking forward to Seam 2.3, because we really need Seam 2 to support JSF2 and JBoss AS 7 - but what is the timeframe for Seam 2.3?

                        I guess there are more developers using Seam 2 than Seam 3. I totally agree with Peter:

                        "development on Seam 2 and also Richfaces 3 stopped too quickly"!
                        • 39. Re: Seam.Next discussion
                          Alexandr Areshchanka Newbie

                          What I want to say is just forget about Seam 2 and JSF 2. I'm raising this question again and again from the end of 2010 with no results and feedback just empty promising that it will be sometime.


                          If Jboss decided not to support Seam 2 and JSF 2 without giving users same simple and great alternative thats their choice...


                          Seam 3 is really not ready from all points of view, no documentation, no good samples, no strict versions (you have to use different modules with different versions that's a hell). Lot's of bugs thats are critical for production application(with threads and memory leaks).


                          So I would suggest you to use another alternatives.


                          Regards, Alex.

                          • 40. Re: Seam.Next discussion
                            Robert Morse Apprentice

                            Alexandr Areshchanka wrote on Oct 05, 2011 13:30:



                            So I would suggest you to use another alternatives.



                            Having been immersed in Seam for quite some time, I haven't looked much at alternatives.  I'd be curious to learn what you and others consider an alternative.  From my point of view, and to make my transition as painless as possible it would need to support:  JSF2 (PrimeFaces not Richfaces), Drools, Workflow, SSO, PDF / Excel generation, Basically, Seam 2 with JSF2 support!  ;-)  

                            • 41. Re: Seam.Next discussion
                              Alexandr Areshchanka Newbie

                              Robert Morse wrote on Oct 05, 2011 14:16:



                              Alexandr Areshchanka wrote on Oct 05, 2011 13:30:



                              So I would suggest you to use another alternatives.



                              Having been immersed in Seam for quite some time, I haven't looked much at alternatives.  I'd be curious to learn what you and others consider an alternative.  From my point of view, and to make my transition as painless as possible it would need to support:  JSF2 (PrimeFaces not Richfaces), Drools, Workflow, SSO, PDF / Excel generation, Basically, Seam 2 with JSF2 support!  ;-)  



                              To tell you the truth me too :) I am working with Seam for 2 or may be more years and it is great. But JSF 2 has come and it is time to use it, Primefaces are marvelous, with each new release they are making brilliant things.


                              I decided to migrate to spring, it was painless for first 2 months after Seam but it works with primefaces, spring has alternatives to what you'v mentioned in your requirements but needs some time to make it work together.


                              I'm not promoting spring but at least it is the only alternative from my point of view that works, is developing and testing, has samples and documentation, has more modules and bigger community.

                              • 42. Re: Seam.Next discussion
                                Alexander Kunkel Newbie

                                Hello,


                                I love Seams roundtrip developing CRUD applications
                                - Change data model
                                - Reengineer it into Seam Entities and views
                                - Modify something and add additional functionality
                                - Ready to deploy


                                I only need Seam 2 plus
                                - Flexible seam gen to invent some templates and own annotations to add further metadata to entities like OpenXava does
                                - JSF2
                                - JBoss AS7


                                Alexander

                                • 43. Re: Seam.Next discussion
                                  Alexandr Areshchanka Newbie

                                  Alexander Kunkel wrote on Oct 05, 2011 14:41:


                                  Hello,

                                  I love Seams roundtrip developing CRUD applications
                                  - Change data model
                                  - Reengineer it into Seam Entities and views
                                  - Modify something and add additional functionality
                                  - Ready to deploy

                                  I only need Seam 2 plus
                                  - Flexible seam gen to invent some templates and own annotations to add further metadata to entities like OpenXava does
                                  - JSF2
                                  - JBoss AS7

                                  Alexander


                                  For spring and JSF 2 I found springfuse.com for crud generation.


                                  Do you really need AS7? What is so special in it, a can't understand still))) Just switch off tomcat logging and you will get same performance and startup time(actually what is done in AS7).

                                  • 44. Re: Seam.Next discussion
                                    Miles Chang Newbie

                                    What about the Seam JMS/Drools module. Would they be discontinued?