I totally agree. I have screamed about update to the seam course or at least seam advanced, but seems like Redhat is not interested.

I see your point.
Maybe we should create competing courses our own. My guess is that they will react to that and create ones one their own.

I also wish the Seam 3 development discussions would be more open then the seam-dev mailing list. I am sure we could have participated to make things better, but thats a whole another discussion

Sell yourself as an EE6 consultant an teach Seam3. Actually, now that the Seam core has been given away and modules are portable, it's going to be interesting to see what Seam3 will look like.

You mean you want more conversations about it? Or, that the list isn't open? Or?

Pretty much everything we have discussed electronically about Seam 3 is available through the list or on this website. We haven't had any other formal discussions about Seam 3 (other than those in the pub of course ;-)

In general Seam contributors are autonomous and expected to be able to understand and challenge design decisions by reading code, not abstract design discussions.

Arbi, this really isn't the forum to discuss this. No one in senior management (who, as at all other companies) control the budget reads this forum, so all you are doing is preaching to the choir (of course we engineers on the project would love to see more money spent on marketing, and I push this with management at every opportunity I can).

The reason we tell you to push this with marketing was because we are pragmatists. Like most other companies, if a (big) customer is pushing for something, then it has more weight with management than pretty much anything else.

So, if you really believe in what you are saying, and aren't just complaining for the sake of it, then direct your energy where it could make a difference.

I asked Mark about a blog, but so far he hasn't found time I guess. Again, he doesn't read these forums, so direct your energy to the right place - send him an email.

Pete Muir wrote on Nov 07, 2009 18:06:


You mean you want more conversations about it? Or, that the list isn't open? Or?

Pretty much everything we have discussed electronically about Seam 3 is available through the list or on this website. We haven't had any other formal discussions about Seam 3 (other than those in the pub of course ;-)

In general Seam contributors are autonomous and expected to be able to understand and challenge design decisions by reading code, not abstract design discussions.

Yes I want more conversation about it. Haven't been any action on the dev lists for a while. If all your discussions have been publicly open, then where are they? Surely you are not referring to the seam-dev list? If yes, then how do you coordinate the development? Where are the code/architecture discussions? I for once, and I know Arbi too, has some questions regarding Seam 3 which are sort of unanswered. If we could have followed the electronical discussion then that would maybe have answered some. For instance, where is the svn? Is it open? When is the due date? What are the major changes between Seam 2 and 3 and so on. :-)

Is is a fair assumption, that alot of the discussions are face-to-face? (Non electronical)?

Is is a fair assumption, that alot of the discussions are face-to-face? (Non electronical)?

No, not at all. We hardly see each other.

We do, however, chat from time to time on IM.