12 Replies Latest reply on Mar 14, 2011 3:18 AM by omid pourhadi

    Disappointed

    Sean Jensen Newbie

      I'm so disappointed in the lack of help I've received from this forum that I will no longer be posting or reading here.  I've posted several times and gotten either no response or a response that was unhelpful at best or at worst rude and counter productive.  I wish you all the best but you've convinced me that new users should seek a more user friendly site to get help.
      I'm sure there will be hateful comments about this post but it's just as likely that no one will care.  Just as no one cared about my questions while I was posting here.

        • 1. Re: Disappointed
          xsa lefter Newbie

          Maybe this answer just another useless answer for you, but please remember that this is a community support forum. Just like another community support, there's no guarantee that your question will be answered.


          I understand your frustration, maybe your on the tight deadline. But please provide a basic information that needed by the others for help your problem. I've been read all your post, but unfortunately almost your question didn't provide useful information, like:



          • What version of seam do you used?

          • What version of jboss do you used?

          • What kind of DBMS do you used?

          • When your apps throws an exception, what exactly do you do before the exception thrown?

          • Where is your classes/jsf?

          • Do you have to try to debug your code?

          • More importantly, what you have done to resolve your own problem?




          Just as no one cared about my questions while I was posting here

          Well, help us to help you. Seeing you to help your self at first would make other people eager to help you ;). Last advice from me: Please do not ever write rant post like this anymore in whatever community forum you have been joined if you want people help you out from your problem.


          Sorry if my post make you hurt/angry. Just my personal opinion.

          • 2. Re: Disappointed
            Brian Abston Newbie

            I can see how people could get frustrated but it looks like most of your posts had at least 1 response. I have been fortunate and have always had my questions answered here. I do wish though there were more experts around to answer and jboss would put some more resources on the forums. I think part of the problem as well is just the nature of Seam. Because Seam is a framework and uses different technologies the learning curve is pretty steep. I think a lot of people jump into Seam without having experience with the underlying technologies and that can cause a lot of their problems and frustrations. For me because of all of the technologies in play it is hard for me to answer questions because I haven't seen the issues before or I am not an expert in that area.


            Good luck and I hope you find a place that can help you out.
            Brian

            • 3. Re: Disappointed
              Gus Gu Expert

              Somehow, Seam 2 looks like dead now. New projects are waiting for Seam 3, old projects are waiting for upgrading JSF2 support which was scheduled in last fall, maybe it can come in this fall after Seam 3 release. :(

              • 4. Re: Disappointed
                Tony Herstell Master

                Is seam 2 dead or simply mature.



                The experts are on the Seam 3 forums now (they should be! as they have to get Seam 3 out).



                I have suggested merging the seam forums into one seam forum again and having a clear indication that the question is Seam2 based (e.g. BIG label saying SEAM 2 and a pink background etc.) but this has not resulted in anything.



                You could pay for support...

                • 5. Re: Disappointed
                  Gus Gu Expert

                  Sorry that my post made you hurt. Just several months ago, an expert said here: if a framework have not been adopted by most enterprises after three to four years development, this framework will be dead. In fact, in last year, the previous Seam lead Pete also said that Seam 2 would not be supported.


                  Actually, I have been loving Seam since Kavin's first Seam release. I also recommended my previous employer to use Seam 2, but they finally adopted Spring. Fortunately, I have the Spring experience which let me change job successfully. In current market, it is very hard to use Seam to find a job.


                  I have been wondering why Seam doesn't set a donation account, like Primeface. If so, I like to donate.


                  I really hope Seam will dominate Java EE market in the future.

                  • 6. Re: Disappointed
                    Brian Abston Newbie

                    Paying for support is a horrible answer. Sure it is an option once an Enterprise buys into Seam but most people are just trying to learn Seam and they will go elsewhere if they can't find answers. I love Seam and so far it is the best solution I have seen but I have felt for a while that Jboss doesn't care about it. Not only are resources lacking in the forums but the Seam training they provide is a joke. The book was riddled with typos and a lot of the labs didn't work.

                    • 7. Re: Disappointed
                      David Faulstich Newbie
                      this forum really ahs some problems.

                      A lot of my answers was not responded. I have to look at the source code of seam to resolve a lot of doubts.

                      I am using Seam 2.2.1.Final + EAp 5.1 + JBPM integration.
                      • 8. Re: Disappointed
                        Tim Evers Master

                        I'm so disappointed in the lack of help I've received from this forum that I will no longer be posting or reading here. I've posted several times and gotten either no response or a response that was unhelpful at best or at worst rude and counter productive. I wish you all the best but you've convinced me that new users should seek a more user friendly site to get help. I'm sure there will be hateful comments about this post but it's just as likely that no one will care. Just as no one cared about my questions while I was posting here.


                        I went through and took a look at your unanswered questions. Here's something to consider.



                        1. WEIRDNESS IN AOP: - First link I got from google gave me the answer for that one. So, nothing to do with this forum. You should research your problems first. It's not an error anyway, just a warning.

                        2. persistance unit not creating - The problem was told to you in the exception, you figured that out.

                        3. Duplicate component name: xxxxxx - You were asked to provide the source that caused the problem and did not. Once again the problem is not with this forum.

                        4. Required component not being created - This question was not answered. So, 1 out of 4 so far.

                        5. Skinnability issues - was answered.



                        So, you had 1 question not answered! In a place where people use their own free time and knowledge that they have worked to get to answer your questions. Seems to me that the forum has been quite good for you. Spending more time googling and searching the forums will probly make your experience even better.



                        this forum really ahs some problems.

                        A lot of my answers was not responded. I have to look at the source code of seam to resolve a lot of doubts.

                        I am using Seam 2.2.1.Final + EAp 5.1 + JBPM integration.


                        You certainly have some unanswered questions. However, some of them would be answered by your own research if you took the time to read the documentation carefully.


                        Here's a tip, Whenever you use the @In annotation always specify the value attribute. That way it doesn't matter what the declared name of the variable is.


                        I think the real problem here is that in both cases you are expecting a FORUM to be your support. This is a community and people will answer questions when they have time and if they feel that they can provide an answer that will help you. If your question is not written well, I (and many others) will probably just ignore it. If you cannot take the time to write your question properly with plenty of information (stack traces, code, xhtml, config) then why do you expect us to write a reply?

                        • 9. Re: Disappointed
                          Tony Herstell Master

                          Tim, this was very informative and I have to concur.


                          I allow and encourage my staff to support the forums and they do answer questions.


                          We have had excellent support over time (above and beyond actually) on both these and RichFaces/ICEFaces forums.


                          We are putting together a possible package for Seam 2/3 and I am supporting that endeavour too.


                          We really can't afford the time; but then we can't afford not to either.


                          These forums are our lifeline.


                          Just remember what you all pay for this support...

                          • 10. Re: Disappointed
                            Alexandr Areshchanka Newbie

                            The reason is that seam 2 latest release is quite stable and almost all problems have solutions or already been fixed, same was with struts 1 in times when everybody used it, all questions are in google. The same as with richfaces 3.3 (development is finished) and jsf 1, this technologies are no supported any any more.


                            But for new projects people are using JSF 2, seam 3 and weld is in deep early stages releases and are unstable, nobody will risk to build apps with this stack.


                            The same is with vacancies on the market, 2 vacancy for Seam developers is pure competitor for 50-70 vacancies for Spring.


                            Also spring supports very well JSF 2, and started implementation of conversation scope, first steps are in SWF 2.3 release.


                            As for me I decided to fully migrate to spring, because of community becoming empty, and its dangerous for me to be a Seam guy, I can loose job, or will have problems if would like to change current.


                            I don't know what jboss is going to do with the situation but it is really unfavourable.


                            Regards, Alex.

                            • 11. Re: Disappointed
                              Shane Bryzak Master

                              One of the things to keep in mind is that the nature of Seam has changed drastically between version 2 and 3.  Investing in Seam 3 can't be compared to investing in the proprietary, full application framework stack that was Seam 2.  As the component model, dependency injection features, event bus and more have all been standardized as part of CDI, your major (and arguably more valuable) investment is now in the Java EE6 platform, which has substantially more backing (both corporate and community-based) than Seam 2.


                              As for the core team's reduced presence on the Seam 2 forums, I apologise for that but you need to understand that there are currently only 3 full time Red Hat employees working on Seam right now.  With the Seam 3 release well overdue we absolutely must devote all of our efforts working on getting a production release out.  In fact, if it wasn't for the massive community involvement in Seam 3 I would dare to say that Seam 3 would never happen (or be substantially reduced in scope).

                              • 12. Re: Disappointed
                                omid pourhadi Apprentice

                                In my point of view, Seam is the future of java
                                while i was facing a problem i've got the point from community and i've never seen such a powerful framework and community although i know in every community, people answer you because they love to and
                                i never assume i'm entitled to get an answer
                                i switched our company platform to Seam that was very risky but it was a good and successful experience that also supported by community


                                BTW Seam is awesome