Version 1
    balunasj: If you are ready lets get started
    [10:04pm] serogers: OK
    [10:04pm] serogers: First item is 3.3.3.CR1 tasks. I think the docs are ready to go, I'll just need to package them and get them uploaded like the last time, right?
    [10:04pm] balunasj: nbelaevski: good afternoon
    [10:05pm] balunasj: Ilya brought up one issue in email
    [10:05pm] balunasj: not sure if you saw it yet
    [10:05pm] serogers: No sorry, haven't checked email yet
    [10:06pm] balunasj: ok
    [10:06pm] ilya_shaikovsky joined the chat room.
    [10:06pm] balunasj: ilya is about to join
    [10:07pm] ilya_shaikovsky: Hi there
    [10:07pm] ilya_shaikovsky: sorry
    [10:07pm] balunasj: his client was not working.
    [10:07pm] ilya_shaikovsky: client fault
    [10:07pm] serogers: hi ilya_shaikovsky
    [10:07pm] ilya_shaikovsky: me "was there" and wondered why so silent
    [10:07pm] ilya_shaikovsky:
    [10:07pm] balunasj: I was just starting to talk to serogers about the issue you brought up in email
    [10:07pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: can you tell him about it
    [10:08pm] ilya_shaikovsky: sure
    [10:08pm] ilya_shaikovsky: serogers, I just not sure maybe we approved something like this and I just forgot but I do not see the pictures with styleClasses pointed to component elements in guide components section for 3.3.x
    [10:09pm] ilya_shaikovsky: just tables of rich* classes
    [10:09pm] ilya_shaikovsky: and no pictures there
    [10:09pm] serogers: Hmm, not sure about that. I didn't remove anything like that.
    [10:10pm] ilya_shaikovsky: maybe some URL's problems then  I didn't checked with IE which shows beautifull "picture not found" rectangles..
    [10:10pm] ilya_shaikovsky: just looked in chrome and see no pictures
    [10:11pm] balunasj: are the too pages ilya pointed to.
    [10:12pm] serogers: Hmm, I see. This was done before I took the docs over I think. I can add it back in if necessary
    [10:12pm] balunasj: I'm using ff 3.5 and see missing images as well.
    [10:12pm] ilya_shaikovsky: serogers, you combined all the tables at the bottom of the sections
    [10:12pm] ilya_shaikovsky: or it was done before you?
    [10:13pm] ilya_shaikovsky: seems it were lost during this moval
    [10:13pm] serogers: I think that was before me
    [10:13pm] ilya_shaikovsky: I see
    [10:13pm] balunasj: serogers: I think it would be good to understand what is going one
    [10:13pm] balunasj: on
    [10:13pm] nbelaevski: this may be lost during doc re-structuring
    [10:13pm] balunasj: in case it is a wider problem that just here.
    [10:13pm] serogers: Sure
    [10:13pm] ilya_shaikovsky: so I prefer to see them back.. it was not very usefull in some cases (many wrapper classes messed in oone picture) but usefuill in most ones
    [10:13pm] balunasj: nbelaevski: I was just thinking that too - perhaps something missing in build process
    [10:14pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: agree - also this is going to be the last release of 3.3.X
    [10:14pm] balunasj: so once we go GA the latest_3_3_X will be this for a very long tim
    [10:14pm] balunasj: time
    [10:15pm] balunasj: there is already 1 issue identified for CR1 in the photo album
    [10:15pm] nbelaevski: balunasj: unfortunately yes
    [10:15pm] balunasj: so we will likely have another update.
    [10:15pm] balunasj: nbelaevski:   just quick review of email - I'll look closer after meeting.
    [10:16pm] nbelaevski: balunasj: sure, np
    [10:16pm] serogers: In the links there, it seems like the whole image has been removed? Is that what you're seeing?
    [10:17pm] balunasj: serogers: yeah for me I just see an empty box with a border
    [10:17pm] serogers: Which section are you looking at?
    [10:17pm] balunasj: Details of Usage
    [10:18pm] nbelaevski: hm, that's a picture of empty panel
    [10:18pm] serogers: Well I think that one is supposed to be an empty frame, isn't it?
    [10:18pm] nbelaevski: Figure 6.80. Empty <rich:panel> - this one?
    [10:19pm] balunasj: d'oh
    [10:19pm] balunasj: it is early  - still drinking coffee - that is the excuse I'll go with
    [10:20pm] serogers:
    [10:20pm] ilya_shaikovsky: serogers, yes It seems should be empty
    [10:20pm] serogers: But figure 6.132 in the 3.3.1.GA doc has been removed from the 3.3.3 doc, is this the issue?
    [10:21pm] balunasj: There seems to be a lot of changes between these docs anyway - the latest version is much shorter
    [10:22pm] balunasj: The structure is different - perhaps these were moved or removed during the changes.
    [10:22pm] nbelaevski: ok, it's in place on the server but not embedded into documentation:
    [10:22pm] serogers: Yes, I think in the later version a lot of the styles info has been generalized and moved to its own section
    [10:23pm] balunasj: So at the very least I'd like you to review this and see what happened
    [10:23pm] balunasj: serogers:
    [10:23pm] balunasj: ^
    [10:23pm] serogers: OK
    [10:23pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: can you create a jira to cover this review ( or serogers )
    [10:23pm] balunasj: for CR1
    [10:24pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: you said on IE you see the missing image icon?
    [10:24pm] ilya_shaikovsky: sure
    [10:24pm] nbelaevski: btw, our former doc. team just confirmed they pictures removed these intentionally
    [10:24pm] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, no it just seems lost from page layout
    [10:24pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, interesting
    [10:25pm] nbelaevski: hard to update and wortheless they said
    [10:25pm] ilya_shaikovsky: I do not remember any discussions
    [10:25pm] ilya_shaikovsky:
    [10:25pm] nbelaevski: that's what Gleb just told me
    [10:25pm] ilya_shaikovsky: yes hard to update but "wortheless" resolution - sounds like bad idea
    [10:26pm] balunasj: hmmm
    [10:26pm] serogers: Having the labels in the image does make it hard for translation
    [10:26pm] balunasj: is the information it was attempting to show exist somewhere else though?
    [10:27pm] balunasj: images are still valuable if the explain the point easily.  Although I agree - should not have text labels.
    [10:27pm] nbelaevski: balunasj: yes, it is here in Table 6.113. Internal style classes (selectors)
    [10:27pm] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, but how we will point to the classes then  only by marking  elements with some numbers for example and then using the same for tables.
    [10:28pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky:  don't like that idea
    [10:28pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, but it's not always usefull if shown inly in table
    [10:28pm] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, agree
    [10:28pm] balunasj: to be honest I don't have a problem with the labels
    [10:29pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, sometimes our names sounds not good to understand where them will be applied
    [10:29pm] balunasj: if you look at them they are mostly the skin name
    [10:29pm] balunasj: that is not "translatable" anyway
    [10:29pm] ilya_shaikovsky: b.t.w.. sure - we will have no need to translate them
    [10:29pm] ilya_shaikovsky: as the styles names not localized
    [10:30pm] ilya_shaikovsky: so the pictures will be the same for localized versions
    [10:30pm] serogers: balunasj: that's true, so translation isn't a problem
    [10:30pm] serogers: sorry
    [10:30pm] balunasj: either way though I don't see us making a major change here  - especially if these changes were all done intentionally.
    [10:30pm] balunasj: serogers: np at all - it is a good concern
    [10:30pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: unless we want to use image to point to main component parts like toolbar, etc...
    [10:31pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: for example, where is toolbar in calendar?
    [10:31pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, I can't get your idea
    [10:31pm] balunasj: nbelaevski: is that what you are thinking?
    [10:31pm] nbelaevski: .rich-calendar-tool-btnDefines styles for a toolbar buttons
    [10:32pm] nbelaevski: that's what we have for calendar
    [10:32pm] nbelaevski: some kind of illustration where toolbar is, should be good I think
    [10:32pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, my main concern is
    [10:32pm] ilya_shaikovsky: look to the table
    [10:33pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: looked, many entries are not useful
    [10:33pm] ilya_shaikovsky: .rich-mpnl-panel .rich-modalpanel - where is the difference?
    [10:33pm] ilya_shaikovsky: rich-mpnl-button rich-mpnl-controls .rich-mpnl-header-cell rich-mpnl-header
    [10:33pm] ilya_shaikovsky: the same
    [10:33pm] ilya_shaikovsky: without picture or using Firebug - the table not usefull
    [10:33pm] ilya_shaikovsky: for many components
    [10:33pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: that might be a bigger deal than just the docs though
    [10:34pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: semantic markup will remove excess elements
    [10:34pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: I see what you mean though.
    [10:34pm] ilya_shaikovsky: agree but not for 3.3.x
    [10:34pm] ilya_shaikovsky: and picture resolved some problems with that
    [10:34pm] balunasj: nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky : yeah I don't see a change here for 3.3.X
    [10:34pm] nbelaevski: and we can leave pictures for 3.3.x, as they are there. how about linking them all to a special page?
    [10:34pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski : do you think it is worth wide for serogers to review these changes anyway.
    [10:34pm] balunasj: ?
    [10:35pm] balunasj: since it confused a user as well.
    [10:35pm] ilya_shaikovsky: why not just inline before the table?
    [10:35pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: you mean putting the images back in?
    [10:35pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: I won't argue, inline is ok too
    [10:35pm] ilya_shaikovsky: because I dislike the idea to look to different pages while lo0oking through the table
    [10:35pm] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, yes
    [10:36pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: I dislike to open 100 pages to find the information I need constantly
    [10:36pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: e.g. I've started skinning - should I open pages for all components?
    [10:36pm] ilya_shaikovsky:
    [10:36pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, other options? One 3Mb page with all pictures?
    [10:36pm] ilya_shaikovsky: or more?
    [10:36pm] ilya_shaikovsky:
    [10:37pm] ilya_shaikovsky: User changed general look and feel in skin and need to look how to customize some particular components.. so he looks at component page.. sounds good for me..
    [10:38pm] balunasj: I think we all know that our approach to documenting skinning needs thinking for 4.X
    [10:38pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: ok, let's get back to main items
    [10:38pm] serogers: OK
    [10:38pm] balunasj: agree - we have more to tlak about too.
    [10:38pm] balunasj: action items for serogers here:
    [10:38pm] balunasj: 1) review the changes and structure here.
    [10:39pm] balunasj: 2) report back what you think.  Although I don't think we'll want  you to add back all of the images
    [10:39pm] balunasj: \
    [10:39pm] balunasj: That it for here I think - at least for 3.3.3
    [10:39pm] serogers: OK
    [10:39pm] balunasj: So lets jump back to other items for 3.3.3.CR1
    [10:40pm] balunasj: All of the jira's for docs are done.
    [10:40pm] balunasj: serogers: how long do you think it will take you to build and have the docs uploaded?
    [10:41pm] serogers: Not long this time, it will be very similar to before. Only a couple of hours at most
    [10:41pm] abelevich joined the chat room.
    [10:42pm] balunasj: ok
    [10:42pm] balunasj: So this can wait for next week once QE has had more time to go.
    [10:42pm] balunasj: serogers: this includes all the API docs and stuff too?
    [10:43pm] serogers: Yes
    [10:43pm] balunasj: ok
    [10:43pm] balunasj: I'll add this to the release jira I'll be creating today.
    [10:44pm] balunasj: Please review the team meeting minutes next week
    [10:44pm] balunasj: and we'll touch base.
    [10:44pm] serogers: OK
    [10:44pm] balunasj: I can't think of anything else for 3.3.X unless there is something you would like reviewed?
    [10:44pm] serogers: No, that's it I think
    [10:45pm] serogers: OK, next. Have any decisions been made for 4.0 release schedules?
    [10:46pm] balunasj: unfortunately  no not yet - I mentioned in yesterdays meeting that I have not been
    [10:46pm] balunasj: able to get the project plans in, but I plan to that today, and have something tomorrow/friday.
    [10:46pm] balunasj: nbelaevski and I will likely review tomorrow and then make more public after that.
    [10:47pm] serogers: OK, no problem
    [10:47pm] balunasj: serogers: so we will know soon for ALPHA2 and then after that we'll have time-boxed releases so they will be more predictable.
    [10:47pm] serogers: Yep.
    [10:48pm] balunasj: ok as for components
    [10:48pm] balunasj: everything in ALPHA1
    [10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:ajax (formally a4j:support)
    [10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:commandLink
    [10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:commandButton
    [10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:push
    [10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:mediaOutput
    [10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:status
    [10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:jsFunction
    [10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:log
    [10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:outputPanel
    [10:48pm] balunasj: + a4j:queue
    [10:48pm] balunasj: + data table components
    [10:48pm] balunasj: abelevich: might be the best one to outline what related components will be part of that.
    [10:49pm] nbelaevski: balunasj: ok, that's good
    [10:49pm] nbelaevski: also there were a4j:region
    [10:49pm] balunasj: nbelaevski: yeah - that is why I wanted lex to focus on skinning instead of keep working on components.
    [10:49pm] ilya_shaikovsky: and also add rich:functions there
    [10:50pm] serogers: OK
    [10:50pm] ilya_shaikovsky: and not see poll in the table
    [10:50pm] ilya_shaikovsky: status
    [10:50pm] balunasj: yup you guys are right.
    [10:50pm] ilya_shaikovsky: sorry  ignore
    [10:51pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, where is the jira for all the components? do you have bookmark?
    [10:51pm] balunasj: at the bottom is some of the others -
    [10:51pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: yeah I just look for that too.
    [10:51pm] ilya_shaikovsky:
    [10:52pm] balunasj: serogers: I recommend creating a jira for docs and linking it to this one.
    [10:53pm] balunasj: serogers: Create a mirrored set of sub-tasks to represent you progress documenting each
    [10:53pm] serogers: OK, great
    [10:53pm] • balunasj again I wish jira support sub-tasks having sub-tasks - it would make this so much cleaner
    [10:55pm] balunasj: opinion ? time
    [10:55pm] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, yes saw this megapopular issue at atlassian jira
    [10:55pm] serogers: The last item on the agenda can wait
    [10:56pm] balunasj: since doc issues directly modify the svn tree and effect tagging and builds I think that issues related to docs should be in RF and not RFPL
    [10:56pm] balunasj: If an issue is "investigate" or "update wiki" or something like that it should still be in RFPL.
    [10:56pm] balunasj: I'm talking about issues like document a4j:poll
    [10:57pm] balunasj: thoughts?
    [10:57pm] serogers: sounds fine to me
    [10:57pm] nbelaevski: agree
    [10:58pm] ilya_shaikovsky: yup
    [10:58pm] balunasj: ok cool
    [10:58pm] balunasj: I'll make a note and make sure it is worded this way on wiki ( lower priority ).
    [10:58pm] balunasj: serogers: anything else you want to cover from the agenda?
    [10:59pm] serogers: Well I am having an error trying to follow the old getting started guide
    [10:59pm] serogers: I'm getting: Can not find the tag library descriptor for ""
    [10:59pm] serogers: and: Can not find the tag library descriptor for ""
    [11:00pm] serogers: Probably not enough time to work it out now though
    [11:01pm] balunasj: yeah - I would need to dig
    [11:01pm] balunasj: unless nbelaevski or ilya_shaikovsky have something quick off the top of their heads?
    [11:01pm] ilya_shaikovsky: sounds like rf libraries not included to project
    [11:02pm] ilya_shaikovsky: or not deployed properly
    [11:02pm] serogers: Yeah, but they are included... maybe not deployed...?
    [11:02pm] nbelaevski: serogers: yes, have you checked deployed application directory?
    [11:03pm] serogers: No
    [11:03pm] nbelaevski: plese check
    [11:03pm] serogers: You mean when it is deployed on the server?
    [11:03pm] ilya_shaikovsky: yes
    [11:04pm] serogers: I'm getting this as a highlighted error before I deploy though
    [11:05pm] ilya_shaikovsky: It could be just IDE related  I'm getting many errors in my valid pages sometimes
    [11:05pm] serogers: Hmm, OK
    [11:05pm] serogers: Well I'll keep trying
    [11:06pm] ilya_shaikovsky: but if not runs properly - seems just libs not deplyed
    [11:06pm] ilya_shaikovsky: we could continue offline
    [11:06pm] ilya_shaikovsky: you could send zipped project skeleton and we'll check
    [11:06pm] serogers: I'll look into it further and ask on the forums if I need further help
    [11:06pm] ilya_shaikovsky: sure
    [11:06pm] serogers: ilya_shaikovsky: that would be helpful
    [11:07pm] balunasj: that sounds good.
    [11:08pm] balunasj: so I think that is all for now - unless serogers wanted to cover other things?
    [11:08pm] pmuir joined the chat room.
    [11:08pm] serogers: Nope, that's it
    [11:08pm] serogers: Thanks everyone
    [11:08pm] ilya_shaikovsky: thanks!
    [11:08pm] balunasj: thanks serogers have a good night
    [11:08pm] serogers: bye
    [11:08pm] ilya_shaikovsky: bye