balunasj: If you are ready lets get started

[10:04pm] serogers: OK

[10:04pm] serogers: First item is 3.3.3.CR1 tasks. I think the docs are ready to go, I'll just need to package them and get them uploaded like the last time, right?

[10:04pm] balunasj: nbelaevski: good afternoon

[10:05pm] balunasj: Ilya brought up one issue in email

[10:05pm] balunasj: not sure if you saw it yet

[10:05pm] serogers: No sorry, haven't checked email yet

[10:06pm] balunasj: ok

[10:06pm] ilya_shaikovsky joined the chat room.

[10:06pm] balunasj: ilya is about to join

[10:07pm] ilya_shaikovsky: Hi there

[10:07pm] ilya_shaikovsky: sorry

[10:07pm] balunasj: his client was not working.

[10:07pm] ilya_shaikovsky: client fault

[10:07pm] serogers: hi ilya_shaikovsky

[10:07pm] ilya_shaikovsky: me "was there" and wondered why so silent

[10:07pm] ilya_shaikovsky:

[10:07pm] balunasj: I was just starting to talk to serogers about the issue you brought up in email

[10:07pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: can you tell him about it

[10:08pm] ilya_shaikovsky: sure

[10:08pm] ilya_shaikovsky: serogers, I just not sure maybe we approved something like this and I just forgot but I do not see the pictures with styleClasses pointed to component elements in guide components section for 3.3.x

[10:09pm] ilya_shaikovsky: just tables of rich* classes

[10:09pm] ilya_shaikovsky: and no pictures there

[10:09pm] serogers: Hmm, not sure about that. I didn't remove anything like that.

[10:10pm] ilya_shaikovsky: maybe some URL's problems then  I didn't checked with IE which shows beautifull "picture not found" rectangles..

[10:10pm] ilya_shaikovsky: just looked in chrome and see no pictures

[10:11pm] balunasj: are the too pages ilya pointed to.

[10:12pm] serogers: Hmm, I see. This was done before I took the docs over I think. I can add it back in if necessary

[10:12pm] balunasj: I'm using ff 3.5 and see missing images as well.

[10:12pm] ilya_shaikovsky: serogers, you combined all the tables at the bottom of the sections

[10:12pm] ilya_shaikovsky: or it was done before you?

[10:13pm] ilya_shaikovsky: seems it were lost during this moval

[10:13pm] serogers: I think that was before me

[10:13pm] ilya_shaikovsky: I see

[10:13pm] balunasj: serogers: I think it would be good to understand what is going one

[10:13pm] balunasj: on

[10:13pm] nbelaevski: this may be lost during doc re-structuring

[10:13pm] balunasj: in case it is a wider problem that just here.

[10:13pm] serogers: Sure

[10:13pm] ilya_shaikovsky: so I prefer to see them back.. it was not very usefull in some cases (many wrapper classes messed in oone picture) but usefuill in most ones

[10:13pm] balunasj: nbelaevski: I was just thinking that too - perhaps something missing in build process

[10:14pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: agree - also this is going to be the last release of 3.3.X

[10:14pm] balunasj: so once we go GA the latest_3_3_X will be this for a very long tim

[10:14pm] balunasj: time

[10:15pm] balunasj: there is already 1 issue identified for CR1 in the photo album

[10:15pm] nbelaevski: balunasj: unfortunately yes

[10:15pm] balunasj: so we will likely have another update.

[10:15pm] balunasj: nbelaevski:   just quick review of email - I'll look closer after meeting.

[10:16pm] nbelaevski: balunasj: sure, np

[10:16pm] serogers: In the links there, it seems like the whole image has been removed? Is that what you're seeing?

[10:17pm] balunasj: serogers: yeah for me I just see an empty box with a border

[10:17pm] serogers: Which section are you looking at?

[10:17pm] balunasj: 6.10.3.3. Details of Usage

[10:18pm] nbelaevski: hm, that's a picture of empty panel

[10:18pm] serogers: Well I think that one is supposed to be an empty frame, isn't it?

[10:18pm] nbelaevski: Figure 6.80. Empty <rich:panel> - this one?

[10:19pm] balunasj: d'oh

[10:19pm] balunasj: it is early  - still drinking coffee - that is the excuse I'll go with

[10:20pm] serogers:

[10:20pm] ilya_shaikovsky: serogers, yes It seems should be empty

[10:20pm] serogers: But figure 6.132 in the 3.3.1.GA doc has been removed from the 3.3.3 doc, is this the issue?

[10:21pm] balunasj: There seems to be a lot of changes between these docs anyway - the latest version is much shorter

[10:22pm] balunasj: The structure is different - perhaps these were moved or removed during the changes.

[10:22pm] serogers: Yes, I think in the later version a lot of the styles info has been generalized and moved to its own section

[10:23pm] balunasj: So at the very least I'd like you to review this and see what happened

[10:23pm] balunasj: serogers:

[10:23pm] balunasj: ^

[10:23pm] serogers: OK

[10:23pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: can you create a jira to cover this review ( or serogers )

[10:23pm] balunasj: for CR1

[10:24pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: you said on IE you see the missing image icon?

[10:24pm] ilya_shaikovsky: sure

[10:24pm] nbelaevski: btw, our former doc. team just confirmed they pictures removed these intentionally

[10:24pm] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, no it just seems lost from page layout

[10:24pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, interesting

[10:25pm] nbelaevski: hard to update and wortheless they said

[10:25pm] ilya_shaikovsky: I do not remember any discussions

[10:25pm] ilya_shaikovsky:

[10:25pm] nbelaevski: that's what Gleb just told me

[10:25pm] ilya_shaikovsky: yes hard to update but "wortheless" resolution - sounds like bad idea

[10:26pm] balunasj: hmmm

[10:26pm] serogers: Having the labels in the image does make it hard for translation

[10:26pm] balunasj: is the information it was attempting to show exist somewhere else though?

[10:27pm] balunasj: images are still valuable if the explain the point easily.  Although I agree - should not have text labels.

[10:27pm] nbelaevski: balunasj: yes, it is here in Table 6.113. Internal style classes (selectors)

[10:27pm] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, but how we will point to the classes then  only by marking  elements with some numbers for example and then using the same for tables.

[10:28pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky:  don't like that idea

[10:28pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, but it's not always usefull if shown inly in table

[10:28pm] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, agree

[10:28pm] balunasj: to be honest I don't have a problem with the labels

[10:29pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, sometimes our names sounds not good to understand where them will be applied

[10:29pm] balunasj: if you look at them they are mostly the skin name

[10:29pm] balunasj: that is not "translatable" anyway

[10:29pm] ilya_shaikovsky: b.t.w.. sure - we will have no need to translate them

[10:29pm] ilya_shaikovsky: as the styles names not localized

[10:30pm] ilya_shaikovsky: so the pictures will be the same for localized versions

[10:30pm] serogers: balunasj: that's true, so translation isn't a problem

[10:30pm] serogers: sorry

[10:30pm] balunasj: either way though I don't see us making a major change here  - especially if these changes were all done intentionally.

[10:30pm] balunasj: serogers: np at all - it is a good concern

[10:30pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: unless we want to use image to point to main component parts like toolbar, etc...

[10:31pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: for example, where is toolbar in calendar?

[10:31pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, I can't get your idea

[10:31pm] balunasj: nbelaevski: is that what you are thinking?

[10:31pm] nbelaevski: .rich-calendar-tool-btnDefines styles for a toolbar buttons

[10:32pm] nbelaevski: that's what we have for calendar

[10:32pm] nbelaevski: some kind of illustration where toolbar is, should be good I think

[10:32pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, my main concern is

[10:32pm] ilya_shaikovsky: look to the table

[10:33pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: looked, many entries are not useful

[10:33pm] ilya_shaikovsky: .rich-mpnl-panel .rich-modalpanel - where is the difference?

[10:33pm] ilya_shaikovsky: rich-mpnl-button rich-mpnl-controls .rich-mpnl-header-cell rich-mpnl-header

[10:33pm] ilya_shaikovsky: the same

[10:33pm] ilya_shaikovsky: without picture or using Firebug - the table not usefull

[10:33pm] ilya_shaikovsky: for many components

[10:33pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: that might be a bigger deal than just the docs though

[10:34pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: semantic markup will remove excess elements

[10:34pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: I see what you mean though.

[10:34pm] ilya_shaikovsky: agree but not for 3.3.x

[10:34pm] ilya_shaikovsky: and picture resolved some problems with that

[10:34pm] balunasj: nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky : yeah I don't see a change here for 3.3.X

[10:34pm] nbelaevski: and we can leave pictures for 3.3.x, as they are there. how about linking them all to a special page?

[10:34pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski : do you think it is worth wide for serogers to review these changes anyway.

[10:34pm] balunasj: ?

[10:35pm] balunasj: since it confused a user as well.

[10:35pm] ilya_shaikovsky: why not just inline before the table?

[10:35pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: you mean putting the images back in?

[10:35pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: I won't argue, inline is ok too

[10:35pm] ilya_shaikovsky: because I dislike the idea to look to different pages while lo0oking through the table

[10:35pm] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, yes

[10:36pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: I dislike to open 100 pages to find the information I need constantly

[10:36pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: e.g. I've started skinning - should I open pages for all components?

[10:36pm] ilya_shaikovsky:

[10:36pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, other options? One 3Mb page with all pictures?

[10:36pm] ilya_shaikovsky: or more?

[10:36pm] ilya_shaikovsky:

[10:37pm] ilya_shaikovsky: User changed general look and feel in skin and need to look how to customize some particular components.. so he looks at component page.. sounds good for me..

[10:38pm] balunasj: I think we all know that our approach to documenting skinning needs thinking for 4.X

[10:38pm] nbelaevski: ilya_shaikovsky: ok, let's get back to main items

[10:38pm] serogers: OK

[10:38pm] balunasj: agree - we have more to tlak about too.

[10:38pm] balunasj: action items for serogers here:

[10:38pm] balunasj: 1) review the changes and structure here.

[10:39pm] balunasj: 2) report back what you think.  Although I don't think we'll want  you to add back all of the images

[10:39pm] balunasj: \

[10:39pm] balunasj: That it for here I think - at least for 3.3.3

[10:39pm] serogers: OK

[10:39pm] balunasj: So lets jump back to other items for 3.3.3.CR1

[10:40pm] balunasj: All of the jira's for docs are done.

[10:40pm] balunasj: serogers: how long do you think it will take you to build and have the docs uploaded?

[10:41pm] serogers: Not long this time, it will be very similar to before. Only a couple of hours at most

[10:41pm] abelevich joined the chat room.

[10:42pm] balunasj: ok

[10:42pm] balunasj: So this can wait for next week once QE has had more time to go.

[10:42pm] balunasj: serogers: this includes all the API docs and stuff too?

[10:43pm] serogers: Yes

[10:43pm] balunasj: ok

[10:43pm] balunasj: I'll add this to the release jira I'll be creating today.

[10:44pm] balunasj: Please review the team meeting minutes next week

[10:44pm] balunasj: and we'll touch base.

[10:44pm] serogers: OK

[10:44pm] balunasj: I can't think of anything else for 3.3.X unless there is something you would like reviewed?

[10:44pm] serogers: No, that's it I think

[10:45pm] serogers: OK, next. Have any decisions been made for 4.0 release schedules?

[10:46pm] balunasj: unfortunately  no not yet - I mentioned in yesterdays meeting that I have not been

[10:46pm] balunasj: able to get the project plans in, but I plan to that today, and have something tomorrow/friday.

[10:46pm] balunasj: nbelaevski and I will likely review tomorrow and then make more public after that.

[10:47pm] serogers: OK, no problem

[10:47pm] balunasj: serogers: so we will know soon for ALPHA2 and then after that we'll have time-boxed releases so they will be more predictable.

[10:47pm] serogers: Yep.

[10:48pm] balunasj: ok as for components

[10:48pm] balunasj: everything in ALPHA1

[10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:ajax (formally a4j:support)

[10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:commandLink

[10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:commandButton

[10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:push

[10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:mediaOutput

[10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:status

[10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:jsFunction

[10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:log

[10:48pm] balunasj: •a4j:outputPanel

[10:48pm] balunasj: + a4j:queue

[10:48pm] balunasj: + data table components

[10:48pm] balunasj: abelevich: might be the best one to outline what related components will be part of that.

[10:49pm] nbelaevski: balunasj: ok, that's good

[10:49pm] nbelaevski: also there were a4j:region

[10:49pm] balunasj: nbelaevski: yeah - that is why I wanted lex to focus on skinning instead of keep working on components.

[10:49pm] ilya_shaikovsky: and also add rich:functions there

[10:50pm] serogers: OK

[10:50pm] ilya_shaikovsky: and not see poll in the table

[10:50pm] ilya_shaikovsky: status

[10:50pm] balunasj: yup you guys are right.

[10:50pm] ilya_shaikovsky: sorry  ignore

[10:51pm] ilya_shaikovsky: nbelaevski, where is the jira for all the components? do you have bookmark?

[10:51pm] balunasj: at the bottom is some of the others -

[10:51pm] balunasj: ilya_shaikovsky: yeah I just look for that too.

[10:51pm] ilya_shaikovsky:

[10:52pm] balunasj: serogers: I recommend creating a jira for docs and linking it to this one.

[10:53pm] balunasj: serogers: Create a mirrored set of sub-tasks to represent you progress documenting each

[10:53pm] serogers: OK, great

[10:53pm] • balunasj again I wish jira support sub-tasks having sub-tasks - it would make this so much cleaner

[10:55pm] balunasj: opinion ? time

[10:55pm] ilya_shaikovsky: balunasj, yes saw this megapopular issue at atlassian jira

[10:55pm] serogers: The last item on the agenda can wait

[10:56pm] balunasj: since doc issues directly modify the svn tree and effect tagging and builds I think that issues related to docs should be in RF and not RFPL

[10:56pm] balunasj: If an issue is "investigate" or "update wiki" or something like that it should still be in RFPL.

[10:56pm] balunasj: I'm talking about issues like document a4j:poll

[10:57pm] balunasj: thoughts?

[10:57pm] serogers: sounds fine to me

[10:57pm] nbelaevski: agree

[10:58pm] ilya_shaikovsky: yup

[10:58pm] balunasj: ok cool

[10:58pm] balunasj: I'll make a note and make sure it is worded this way on wiki ( lower priority ).

[10:58pm] balunasj: serogers: anything else you want to cover from the agenda?

[10:59pm] serogers: Well I am having an error trying to follow the old getting started guide

[11:00pm] serogers: Probably not enough time to work it out now though

[11:01pm] balunasj: yeah - I would need to dig

[11:01pm] balunasj: unless nbelaevski or ilya_shaikovsky have something quick off the top of their heads?

[11:01pm] ilya_shaikovsky: sounds like rf libraries not included to project

[11:02pm] ilya_shaikovsky: or not deployed properly

[11:02pm] serogers: Yeah, but they are included... maybe not deployed...?

[11:02pm] nbelaevski: serogers: yes, have you checked deployed application directory?

[11:03pm] serogers: No

[11:03pm] nbelaevski: plese check

[11:03pm] serogers: You mean when it is deployed on the server?

[11:03pm] ilya_shaikovsky: yes

[11:04pm] serogers: I'm getting this as a highlighted error before I deploy though

[11:05pm] ilya_shaikovsky: It could be just IDE related  I'm getting many errors in my valid pages sometimes

[11:05pm] serogers: Hmm, OK

[11:05pm] serogers: Well I'll keep trying

[11:06pm] ilya_shaikovsky: but if not runs properly - seems just libs not deplyed

[11:06pm] ilya_shaikovsky: we could continue offline

[11:06pm] ilya_shaikovsky: you could send zipped project skeleton and we'll check

[11:06pm] serogers: I'll look into it further and ask on the forums if I need further help

[11:06pm] ilya_shaikovsky: sure

[11:06pm] serogers: ilya_shaikovsky: that would be helpful

[11:07pm] balunasj: that sounds good.

[11:08pm] balunasj: so I think that is all for now - unless serogers wanted to cover other things?

[11:08pm] pmuir joined the chat room.

[11:08pm] serogers: Nope, that's it

[11:08pm] serogers: Thanks everyone

[11:08pm] ilya_shaikovsky: thanks!

[11:08pm] balunasj: thanks serogers have a good night

[11:08pm] serogers: bye

[11:08pm] ilya_shaikovsky: bye