9 Replies Latest reply on Sep 19, 2006 2:08 PM by Claus Wittmann

    BPEL workflow - who to determine whats the next step?

    Claus Wittmann Newbie

      Hi there!

      I'm experimenting with your jbpm and now with your bpel (beta1) since a while and I have some questions:

      First:
      bpel saves the data of the process in the same database as jbpm (with some extensions).
      So wich of the functions of jbpm can I now reuse?
      I think somethink like deployjbpmprocess is deprecated in that way :-)
      But whats about token.signal?

      This leads to my main question:
      In jbpm I can allways verify where in my processgraph I'm actually working (token.getNode().getName() and so on...). So the token shows me where I am and I can therefore start the correct function.

      Who can I do this in BPEL?
      Especially this is interesting for persistence... Most of our processes will not be completet in one run (so not like the atm-example).
      It will stop and maybe another volunteer (employee :-) ) will have to resume the process...

      Thanks for your help in advance!

      Greetings

      TNT
      Studen

        • 1. Re: BPEL workflow - who to determine whats the next step?
          Jose Juan Avila Newbie

          HI,
          Thank you for your answer. I really understand the differences between BPEL and jbpm and Bpel is my choice since I want to get Web services orchestration.

          The problem is that it seems to me that jbpm is much more developped and many of the features :::
          - user task assignaments
          - web console in order to know in where we are in the process
          etc...
          are only developped for jbpm..

          I also wonder which functions of jbpm can I reuse ?

          Any help on that ? Any documentation on that ?

          Another student.

          • 2. Re: BPEL workflow - who to determine whats the next step?
            Alejandro Guizar Master

            TNT,

            You are thinking in terms of the jBPM object model. In BPEL the concept of process instance is rather abstract and the token does not exist.

            Consider the ATM example. The process instance sits waiting for an ATM to send a log-on message. This might take an arbitrarily long time, hours, perhaps days. During this time the process is stopped and the process objects are stored in the database. To resume the process, you send a log-on message to the front end web service and provide the ticket number assigned to the ATM.

            Internally, the BPEL runtime will take the ticket number, "correlate" it to a dormant token, load it from the database and signal it for you. There are some other actions the engine must perform, such as assigning the message data to the process variables, ensuring the correlation constraint and registering an outstanding request in case the request expects a response.

            I cannot think of a reason why you would want to perform these actions yourself, so why do you need direct access to the token? Take into account that one of the selling points of BPEL is its being a standard. If you dive into a particular implementation, you won't be able to switch to a different implementation easily (should you ever want to :-)

            • 3. Re: BPEL workflow - who to determine whats the next step?
              Alejandro Guizar Master

              Alonso,

              Monitoring is definitely a feature we need to add. In the recently released jBPM BPEL 1.1.Beta2, you can deploy jbpm.war alongside jbpm-bpel.sar and get a running jBPM console. See BPEL-196.

              You can deploy jPDL processes there, see BPEL processes alongside jPDL processes in the process definitions page and see the running instances. The instance detail page breaks because the BPEL processes have no image.

              The reason why we are not fixing this issue is that jBPM 3.2 will feature a completely new console with reusable JSF components. David Lloyd, a new member of jBPM team, is taking care of that.

              • 4. Re: BPEL workflow - who to determine whats the next step?
                Claus Wittmann Newbie

                Thanks Alex for your answer!

                It was very helpful. But as allways - I have more questions:

                OK - You talked about ticketnumbers.
                OK that's the way I wanted to work anyway. But isn't there allready a ticketnumber (processcontext) saved in database?

                Lets describe it by an example:
                I have started a process like a "bulk purchase".
                I have delayed this process - maybe because I'm not allowed to do any tasks further (like commiting an order because it exeeds an special amount of money).

                As a next point my supervisor gets an information to continue the process and commit the order.


                So heres the point.
                I want to create (use) a unique ticket id and store it in the (the same or another) database. In my example my superviser would use this ticket id to connect to the webservice and continue the process with the another authorisation access.

                Easy isn't it?

                So and now the BIG question I'm hanging arround:
                Is something like this (unique ticket id) that I can access via my BPEL-Processmodelling or my Implementations in my "back" to work like in the example?

                I know there was something like this in jBPM (process instances?)

                Every help is welcome!

                Greetings

                Claus

                • 5. BPEL Beta2
                  Claus Wittmann Newbie

                  By the way: Do you know when beta2 will be released?
                  I have checked out the cvs - it seems to be a lot of changes...

                  Do I have to recreate my internal project to use the new extension?

                  Greetings

                  Claus

                  • 6. Re: BPEL workflow - who to determine whats the next step?
                    Alejandro Guizar Master

                    It is already released ;)

                    Take a look at the announcement

                    • 7. Re: BPEL workflow - who to determine whats the next step?
                      Claus Wittmann Newbie

                      Thats unfair!
                      I was looking 5 hours ago at the same place!
                      They've changed the entrance!

                      OK - Now I have to test new stuff...

                      Greetings

                      Claus

                      Student (BA)
                      eMundo GmbH - Germany

                      I'm working on a BPEL Processintegration Framework to achieve my Bachelor grade.

                      For more information see Agilpro

                      • 8. Re: BPEL workflow - who to determine whats the next step?
                        Alejandro Guizar Master

                        I am not sure what you mean in your previous post:

                        But isn't there allready a ticketnumber (processcontext) saved in database?

                        I think you mean "why do we obtain and pass around a ticket number if jbpm already provides a process instance/token id?", is that right?

                        • 9. Re: BPEL workflow - who to determine whats the next step?
                          Claus Wittmann Newbie

                          Nearly.

                          I think my question is allready run through this point. I wanna know how to access it :-)

                          Or another option to do that stuff I ment to do.

                          Thanks for your fast answer!

                          Greetings
                          Claus