14 Replies Latest reply on Sep 12, 2009 1:33 AM by ananth ram

    does JBPM support below features?

    Satheesh Kumar Newbie

      Hi all,
      Can any one validate whether JBPM supports below feature? Its very urgent for me.
      JBPM Rule Actions can be web services
      JBPM Rule Actions can be Java classes
      JBPM Rule Actions can be stored procedures
      JBPM's Web Service can be rule input
      JBPM's Web service can be actor in process


      Thanks in advance.
      Satheesh

        • 1. Re: does JBPM support below features?
          Ronald van Kuijk Master

          I think you mixed something up.

          1,2,3: jBPM can call rules. How those rules do things is up to the rules engine.

          4 depends even more on the rules engine.

          5: I have no clue what you mean here. If you want e.g. to do assignment based on some webservice to call, then yes that is possible since you can call a webservice from java and user the return value in the assignmenthandler

          • 2. Re: does JBPM support below features?
            Satheesh Kumar Newbie

            Actually we are doing some evaluation criteria for jbpm and tht is where these things fall in.

            thanks for the reply kukeltje.

            • 3. Re: does JBPM support below features?
              Satheesh Kumar Newbie

              The question with respect to 1,2,3 is whether rule actions can be implemented as webservice or java class or stored procedure?

              • 4. Re: does JBPM support below features?
                Mauricio Salatino Master

                You can also use Drools Flow to support all that requirements. And with Drools Flow you just need to learn one set of APIs to implement what you want.

                • 5. Re: does JBPM support below features?
                  Bernd Ruecker Master

                   


                  whether rule actions can be implemented as webservice or java class or stored procedure?


                  Still don't get what you try to achieve. Can you elaborate a bit or make a small example? What rule action? It should be called from a process? ...?

                  • 6. Re: does JBPM support below features?
                    Satheesh Kumar Newbie

                    The question is can jbpm rule actions be implemented as webservice or stored procedure.

                    If it can be implemented as web service, using webservice can we provide rule input?

                    Guys please bare with me for these kind of questions because i'm new to JBPM

                    • 7. Re: does JBPM support below features?
                      Bernd Ruecker Master

                      The problem is: I still don't understand the question.

                      You have some rules (in what format? What implementation? Drools? Or...?). And you want to call them in the jbpm process?
                      And this calling should be done via web service?

                      And why are you refereing to stored procedures? Maybe you have rules in a completly different format?

                      Would be good, if you give the domain example of what you are trying to achieve.

                      • 8. Re: does JBPM support below features?
                        Tom Baeyens Master

                         

                        "salaboy21" wrote:
                        You can also use Drools Flow to support all that requirements. And with Drools Flow you just need to learn one set of APIs to implement what you want.


                        jBPM is the only BPM solution that will make it through productization into JBoss products.


                        • 9. Re: does JBPM support below features?
                          Jan Bartel Newbie

                          Hi cssatheesh,

                          I suppose from your questions, that you are searching a process-management-engine for your java project and that you have already evaluated JBoss Drool ( I insinuate that, because of the "rulecentric" scope of your questions :D)

                          As I'm doing the same task for one of our projects, I'm trying to share my insights about both engines with you.

                          My first finding is that both engines (jbpm and drools flow) have their own right and their own focus in implementing a workflow-management-engine.
                          Drools is a very powerful rule-centric engine which has integrated lot's of functionality provided to Business-Rules, while Jbpm is a lightweight solution concentrating on the java world.

                          Both has it's advantages, but Drools is (in my opinion ;) ) a solution which is useful if your project benifits from a very high integration of buisiness-rules.
                          It perfomes lesser than jbpm in the java-world and is more error-prone because it's complex architecture.

                          I'm trying to give you a deeper insight in your questions but i must admit that my insights are restricted.

                          1) Yes, for both libraries but with a restriction, you have to use the esb or java-class actions to invoke them in jbpm, while you have to create a workitem or a java-action in drools.

                          2) Yes, this is were Jbpm is clearly superiour to Drools, you can intstanciate a method of a random pojo, with chosen parameters using the java-action, were you have to use a workItem or a java-drools-action in drools (which is quite less flexible).

                          3)Yes you can use hql and sql actions, and call stored procedures with your java classes invoced by a java action. For drools you have to use a workItem or a java-drools-action

                          4 + 5)Neither jbpm nor drools implement a default webservice to call a process (at least I don't know such a default webservice), but it's quite easy to implement a webservice calling the processengine, especially if you use Jboss Seam or a library like axis2.

                          At least there is nothing about rules in Jbpm ;) , you have to call a rule-engine like drools for this purpose, but this might be more efficient if your development is java-centric and is using relativly few rules.

                          I hope this helped,

                          CU Jan




                          • 10. Re: does JBPM support below features?
                            Mauricio Salatino Master

                            @Jan

                            The Drools team always appreciates feedback, so I would like to ask you to clarify a few of your statements if that is ok?

                            What gives you the impression that Drools Flow does not perform well in the Java world? An action node can contain any Java code you want. You have direct access to your process variables (as if they were local variables) and you have clear access to your context through a kcontext object. You can easily define processes in Java (if you don't like XML) using a fluent API. The engine itself is a simple Java POJO component that can run embedded (without any db even). What features are we missing to make it even more Java-friendly?

                            Let's suggest you have an application where you're not that interested in rules. Why do you think Drools Flow has a more complex architecture in that case (basically both engines are implemented as a simple state machine, if you don't use rules the underlying technology is very similar)? Does the fact that it is also possible to use rules make the overall solution more complex? We tried to keep the APIs separate as much as possible though (check out http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/labs/labs/jbossrules/trunk/drools-api/src/main/java/org/drools/runtime/process/ProcessRuntime.java, I don't think it can get much easier than that?).

                            • 11. Re: does JBPM support below features?
                              Koen Aers Master

                              Mauricio,

                              These forums are not the place to discuss the features or the architecture of Drools Flow. Please continue these discussions in the appropriate forum.

                              Moreover, as Tom already indicated in an earlier post in this thread, jBPM is the only BPM solution that is and will be supported and productized in the JBoss portfolio.

                              Regards,
                              Koen

                              • 12. Re: does JBPM support below features?
                                Jan Bartel Newbie

                                Hi Maurico,

                                I think this is not the right place for discussing this ....
                                could you suggest an other forum where I can answer your questions ?

                                CU Jan

                                P.S. Since I'm a bit under timepressure at the moment, a detailed answer could last until next week ....

                                • 13. Re: does JBPM support below features?
                                  Mauricio Salatino Master

                                  Hi barteljan,
                                  We can continue this discussion in private (salaboy@gmail.com), or in the Drools mailing list.

                                  • 14. Re: does JBPM support below features?
                                    ananth ram Newbie

                                    Thanks for the great information......barteljan