5 Replies Latest reply on Dec 6, 2006 3:21 AM by Tom Baeyens

    SEAM / Java 5

    Tom Baeyens Master

      I want to reopen the discussion on SEAM and Java 5. Afaik, the only reason, we didn't opt for SEAM was Java 5. But i can't seem to find that discussion thread any more :-(

      Now we have a company that is considering collaboration with significant contributions. But they have seam as a prerequisite. If not SEAM, they are going to build /are already building their own web console with SEAM.

      Since this is a matter of time, I think we might reconsider.

      From a general jbpm-adoption standpoint i don't think that dropping support for java 1.4 is a problem. BUT the problem is that big coorporations tend to be slow on adopting new versions... These might not be big in numbers, but they are important for JBoss. BUT Fadar also made the remark: 'if they are slow to adopt java versions, they will probably also be slow to adopt new jBPM versions...'

      Note that this is only a compatibility issue for the web console. The runtime engine for 3.x versions of jBPM will surely remain 1.4 compliant. But this will of course also impact the java 5 compatibility requirement of the simple-to-install suite package and might give the wrong impression.

      Anyways, these are all the pro and con arguments that i could think of from the top of my head.

      Do you see other arguments ?

      Would you think it is a good overall idea to move to SEAM ?

      I know that Gavin is going to be happy if we would make the change... well... let's say he's going to declare us "less nuts" :-)

        • 1. Re: SEAM / Java 5
          brittm Novice


          Some random thoughts...

          It's only my opinion, but I think Java 1.5 and SEAM are important for the project. From a marketing perspective, it says, "We're on board and part of a unified technological front--Jboss is/is going to be the leading JEE5 solution provider, and we're a major part of all the inovation that brings."

          If a company, large or small, is going to adopt jBPM, they're doing it because they're ready to do something new--and a Java 1.5 requirement isn't likely to stop them.

          Working for a big company, I know that we'll choose a solution based on its own merits, regardless of which JVM it runs on (within reason). If we choose the latest jBPM, we're running it on its own system, and on that system we'll run whatever is required. --we just enjoy working with 1.5 better, so we do :)

          Looking at web technologies, its been our experience that JSF, on its own, is a royal pain--so we're moving our task management web app to Facelets (and perhaps SEAM) looking for better productivity. If we can't find it, we're likely to have to revert back to straight JSPs or be forced to a non-Java technology. That is just to say, that it's hard to go wrong by bringing in strategies that increase productivity and maintainability.

          Also, when you find a group of programmers who are excited about a technology (like Gavin is about SEAM) it can be a lot easier to find someone willing to help work through sticky problems.


          • 2. Re: SEAM / Java 5
            David Lloyd Master

            If we go with Seam before 3.2.0, I'm sure it will delay the release of that version. That, and losing jdk1.4 compatibility, are really the only negatives that I see.

            As far as technical merits, JDK5 is obviously superior in lots of ways, and I think going to Seam would be a smart move on many levels.

            Let's do it?

            • 3. Re: SEAM / Java 5
              Tom Baeyens Master

              no not yet. let's first wait and see if it actually brings the extra contributions we're hoping for.

              i think that for 3.2. we need to go ahead and finish with what we have now.

              • 4. Re: SEAM / Java 5
                Ronald van Kuijk Master

                I agree, lets keep 3.2 as it is. 3.3 maybe... Maybe we should do a poll in the userforum?