7 Replies Latest reply on May 9, 2007 10:28 AM by Pete Muir

    Request: Step by Step build it yourself tutorial

    Francisco Jose Peredo Noguez Newbie

      Hi!
      I don't mean to compare Seam with Spring
      (I like Spring, but I think that Seam's bijection is just superior)
      But I would like to see a tutorial like this for Seam:
      Spring MVC step by step

      Why do I love that tutorial?:


      It starts with a very very simple page
      Then it adds a very simple binding to a controller
      Then it adds a more complex binding of an array of Pojos
      Then it adds unittesting and another very simple page
      Then it makes the Pojos persistent
      The ant file is written in the tutorial, by hand, it is simple, and explicit.
      Everything is done "by hand" no steps with hidden effects o configurations


      I mean... suposedly, using Seam should more straighforward than using Spring... but I am in need of an example/tutorial that shows that "the Seam way" is also superior, even without automatic code generation... (or would you say that if someone adds a generator to SpringMVC then it becomes the same thing as Seam? I don't think so... but... how can be sure?)

      Thanks



        • 2. Re: Request: Step by Step build it yourself tutorial
          Pete Muir Master

          I'm a big fan of tutorials etc. explaining the bigger picture/the concepts (what bijection is, how conversations work, how that aids you in terms of a LIEs, how a pageflow aids you) and also giving you real life examples (that actually do *something*). IMHO configuration should be an appendix (I mean, its just so boring), or at worst around chapter 999999 ;)

          But, given the number of books that have a "Chapter 2. Configuration" - I guess I'm not in the majority! As Christian says, contribute! The wiki is a great place to maintain such a tutorial (and in many ways such a tutorial is best written by someone who is learning, rather than someone who has learned, as they've forgotten which bits are tricky! and then reviewed for correctness) - post back here and I'm sure people will review and correct it :)

          • 3. Re: Request: Step by Step build it yourself tutorial
            Pete Muir Master

             

            "fperedo" wrote:
            I mean... suposedly, using Seam should more straighforward than using Spring... but I am in need of an example/tutorial that shows that "the Seam way" is also superior, even without automatic code generation... (or would you say that if someone adds a generator to SpringMVC then it becomes the same thing as Seam? I don't think so... but... how can be sure?)


            I'm pretty sure that *no-one* would claim that the real reason Seam is superior to Spring is because of the nitty-gritty of configuring your app - but rather in the bigger picture - long running conversations, bpm integration etc.

            • 4. Re: Request: Step by Step build it yourself tutorial
              stephen.friedrich Novice

              Pete, I don't care so much if it's an appendix or if it's chapter 2, but I have to agree that such an introduction would be very valuable.

              More than once I started with some new framework/library and while the documentation clearly wet my appetite it was much too hard to get started for real.

              Where's the download, what jars do I need to put where, how do I integrate with X (ajax4sf, trinidad, ...) or make it run on Y (tomcat vs jboss vs. weblogic ...)

              It seems to me as long as you are using Eclipse and start with either an existing example or seamgen you are fine.
              As soon as you depart from that you start to get problems.

              However I am not so sure and confident that the task of writing such a manual setup documentation is feasible, regarding the pace of Seam development and the sheer number of possible combinations (Seam 1.1/1.2/1.3, JBoss 4.0.5/4.2/5.0, Myfaces/RI, JSF 1.1/1.2, Trinidad/RichFaces/ICEFaces/..., ajax4jsf/dwr/..., ).

              P.S.
              Just yesterday I bought the Facelets Shortcuts book(let) that you mentioned and it helped me a lot that the part describing configuration was chapter ...
              ... 2.

              • 5. Re: Request: Step by Step build it yourself tutorial
                Francisco Jose Peredo Noguez Newbie

                Hi!
                I agree that configuration is boring.... (that is one of the reasons I think Seam could be more productive than Spring), but after years of development, I feel uneasy to use a technology if I don't feel that I can go somewhere and read a good "map" of "how to deal with the configuration stuff by hand"...
                I know that the new trend is to imitate "Ruby on Rails" and have scaffolding and convention over configuration... and that... is great for new projects... but in my experience... one has to deal alot with existing projects, existing configuration, existing application servers... one of the reasons I love hibernate is because it "plays well with others", I can map my POJO to pretty much any old and badly designed database...
                I like Spring because I can be used pretty much anywhere...
                And I like Seam... because I just love the bijection idea... and the fact that I can "configure" it with almost no XML (unlike spring)
                I was ready to accept the fact that Seam is for EE5 or later versions (so it won't run everywhere), but then I read that I can be run in tomcat... so... if it can run in tomcat... it should be posible to use it pretty much in any container (as long as it runs in JDK1.5 or later), but I feel that an example showing how to do that, step by step, is just missing...
                I do believe that one of Seam advantages is that "configuration" is not as verbose as in Spring... but it while it is less verbose... it is either more complex... or less explained...
                Convention over configuration is a good idea... but only if that convention is clearly documented... and if configuration can be enabled for special (or not so special) cases...



                • 6. Re: Request: Step by Step build it yourself tutorial
                  Francisco Jose Peredo Noguez Newbie

                  But I agree, a newbie perspective could be a good idea for this... maybe I should write that tutorial...
                  I just hope some experts from here really review it, because its gonna have a lot of bugs, and misunderstandings (I am just a newbie on Seam, trying to write a tutorial...)

                  • 7. Re: Request: Step by Step build it yourself tutorial
                    Pete Muir Master

                    I would happily review such docs, but I'm afraid I'm away on holiday for the next month, so can't do it immediately.