9 Replies Latest reply on May 9, 2008 10:49 AM by Pete Muir

    What about Web Beans?

    Christian Lauer Newbie

      I've asked this question before, but unfortunately got no satisfying answer so far, so let's try again:


      First of all, I love Seam! With this framework It's that simple to create modern Web Applications like it should be. It proves that doing powerful things in a modern way is possible and that Jave EE doesn't need to be heavyweight. Excelent job so far!


      But on the other side what makes Java EE so strong is standards. One reason besides the clear advantages in       efficiency to choose Seam as our future framework was the promised standardization. Unfortunately it has turned out that the Web Beans specification is different from the current Seam implementation in major points. This is based on the current informations from the JCP site and Gavin's blog what is dated from october last year.


      My question now is, how is the progress regarding the specification, when will a reference implementation be available or when will the Seam project start to adopt the changes from the spec?


      Meanwhile it's very important to know which features of Seam will die with the RI, for example regarding the early draft the Outjection will not be part of the spec. So how hard will migration be for projects that heavily use those concepts?


      Best regards,
      Christian

        • 1. Re: What about Web Beans?
          Kenneth Christensen Novice

          Is outjection really 'dead' in the webbeans spec.? :-(
          Or is there an alternative to outjection?

          • 2. Re: What about Web Beans?
            Pete Muir Master

            AFAIK outjection won't be in web beans - but we will provide a smooth upgrade path from Seam to Seam-with-WebBeans...


            Watch this website for news on the spec, and the RI.

            • 3. Re: What about Web Beans?
              Dan Allen Master

              I had a disturbing e-mail from Martin Marinschek shortly before this post when I tried to submit talks to the JSFDays conference. One of my talks, which I am doing at Jazoon, is titled Evolution baby: Bijection displaces dependency injection His message read, Bijection is already dead - it won't be used in web-beans anymore. As a Seam developer, I strongly oppose this comment.


              First of all, Seam is not WebBeans. WebBeans is a proposed standard that is taking parts of Seam and moving them forward. But that doesn't mean breaking backwards compatibility or even abandoning the design.


              Second, I like bijection and I don't necessarily agree that proxies are the best approach. Yes, with bijection you must have synchronous calls because hard references are injected, but you shouldn't be injecting shared data into beans you won't synchronize anyway. However, that said, EJB 3.1 has some really cool concurrency control that would work nicely with bijection.


              Don't believe what you are told unless we are nodding our heads. I ain't nodding yet.

              • 4. Re: What about Web Beans?
                Nicklas Karlsson Master

                Thats a little like saying The Criteria API is already dead - it won't be used in JPA anymore a few years ago ;-)


                Speaking of Web Beans, I notice that there are some password protected teaser links up on SFWK now...

                • 5. Re: What about Web Beans?
                  Andy Gibson Novice

                  What do you define as outjection? Are factory methods outjection? How about DataModel attributes which kind of do an outjection?


                  For me personally, I never use the @Out attribute explicitly, I guess I never feel the need to push an object in and then either change it, or send one out. I always use factory methods, or I reference objects as a member of a named component. I saw web beans has factories, which would cover most cases for me I think.


                  I avoided @Out once I read the warnings about avoiding excessive outjection, plus I can't think of any really good use cases for it except maybe outjecting a user entity when you log in.


                  Cheers,


                  Andy Gibson

                  • 6. Re: What about Web Beans?
                    Andy Gibson Novice

                    Sorry, no idea why I keep referring to annotations as attributes in the previous post.


                    Andy

                    • 7. Re: What about Web Beans?
                      Pete Muir Master

                      See - it's not password protected now (I might have made a mistake initially).


                      I'm still working out the overall plan for the RI, but things should really start moving soon - subscribe to the dev list if you are interested in helping out ;-)

                      • 8. Re: What about Web Beans?
                        Nicklas Karlsson Master

                        Pete Muir wrote on May 08, 2008 11:02 PM:


                        See - it's not password protected now (I might have made a mistake initially).


                        Now I see the JIRA but the svn repo is still password protected for me. You might have it saved in the browser so you don't get prompted?

                        • 9. Re: What about Web Beans?
                          Pete Muir Master

                          For some reason we don't have anonymous svn replication going on, I'll get that fixed.


                          For now, just use your jboss.org (JIRA) username and password for the real svn repo to get read only access.