4 Replies Latest reply on Mar 9, 2009 11:11 AM by nickboldt

    JBoss Developer Studio vs MyEclipse

    nmatrix9

      Hello Everyone,

      Don't want to start a flame war, but I'm a myeclipse user thinking of getting JBoss Developer studio for Facelets, Tomahawk, Ricfaches, hibernate, JSF development, I'm trying to compare features but I still need more information before I make my purchase. My question is to you JBDS Developers is:

      1. How responsive is the JBoss community to paying subscribers? Myeclipse is extremely responsive in this regard.

      2. Is JBDS everything you thought it would be when compared to other IDE's

      3. How intuitive are the tools for JBDS, (including the JBoss
      WebConsole), reverse engineering a db for a hibernate project? ER diagrams? I'm currently using glassfish application server

      4. Can I import my myeclipse projects into JBDS?

      5. Overall roadmap features and JBoss Developer Studio system stability how is the quality of the plugins? One thing I'm beginning to see with myeclipse is the overall plugin architecture is beginning to get unstable and slow. Because their putting everything including the kitchen sink in their implementation which may make it feature rich but every other upgrade ends up either conflicting or breaking something including previous projects.

      6. HOW RELIABLE is the documentation, ONE thing I do not have patience for is sloppy documentation. Especially when I'm a paying customer. It's one thing to make a minor spelling mistake but when your tutorials are so off base that it ends up making things more confusing and frustrating for the end user. Well then I have to look else where

      7. Does JBoss come with GOOD QUALITY UML or Modeling tools?

      8. Does JBDS page preview for jsps and facelets projects work under linux? For myeclipse it currently does not which is frustrating me.

      9. Doe JBOSS listen to their customers or take polls on what they would like to see in future JBDS features or plugins?

      10. Have you ever suspected of being vendor locked in when using certain aspects of this platform?

      11. Does JBDS support 64 bit architectures (I'm running Myeclipse on 64 bit CENTOS 5 with IBM JDK 6.2 x86_64)

      12. Does it provide full support for the JavaEE 5 spec?

      13. Does JBDS support maven?

      14. What is speed and responsiveness like on JBDS on YOUR system?

      15. Are the number of plugins sufficent for you to be productive and happy/satisified when working on medium to large projects? If not what would you like to see integrated into the platform?

      One thing I've noticed with various eclipse implementations is "feature conflict overload". So many plugins that it ends up becoming ridiculous. Ironicly instead of making things easier with the plugin technologies it ends up making things much more harder because the plugins end up conflicting with other plugins, libraries and technologies. I've stated this in a myeclipse forum for their use of icefaces not being compatible with facelets or tomahawk. I'm looking for a Feature rich but COHERENT and FOCUSED development platform.

      If anything is unclear or does not make sense please tell me and I will attempt to clarify.

      Any links to additional info I can look at will be greatly appreciated.

      Thank you,

        • 1. Re: JBoss Developer Studio vs MyEclipse
          maxandersen

          I can't answer these as a user, but I can answer with our intent and concrete info about JBoss Developer Studio as a developer of the project and product.

          "nmatrix9" wrote:

          1. How responsive is the JBoss community to paying subscribers? Myeclipse is extremely responsive in this regard.


          I believe we answer every question in here we see.


          2. Is JBDS everything you thought it would be when compared to other IDE's


          No, I always find ways to improve it.


          3. How intuitive are the tools for JBDS, (including the JBoss
          WebConsole), reverse engineering a db for a hibernate project? ER diagrams? I'm currently using glassfish application server


          JBoss WebConsole is not part of JBDS so not sure what you mean by that.
          The reverse engineering for a database for a hibernate project is just as good as MyEclipse since MyEclipse uses Hibernate tools which I built - I would say ours is better since all features are enabled opposed to MyEclipse which disabled some key features.


          4. Can I import my myeclipse projects into JBDS?


          To the extent that myeclipse has eclipse compatible projects yes.
          But all the myeclipse specific settings (such as myeclipse's builders)
          are not possible to handle for us.


          5. Overall roadmap features and JBoss Developer Studio system stability how is the quality of the plugins? One thing I'm beginning to see with myeclipse is the overall plugin architecture is beginning to get unstable and slow. Because their putting everything including the kitchen sink in their implementation which may make it feature rich but every other upgrade ends up either conflicting or breaking something including previous projects.


          We try and do our best to avoid breakage - we improve our QA and automatic testing continuously. Feedback from our community is what keeps us on our toes.


          6. HOW RELIABLE is the documentation, ONE thing I do not have patience for is sloppy documentation. Especially when I'm a paying customer. It's one thing to make a minor spelling mistake but when your tutorials are so off base that it ends up making things more confusing and frustrating for the end user. Well then I have to look else where


          Is the documentation perfect ? No, we constantly update the documentation based on our own proof readings and communitys feedback.

          Our tutorials should be uptodate - if you ever find anything outofdate or "mysterious" let us known and we will fix it ASAP.


          7. Does JBoss come with GOOD QUALITY UML or Modeling tools?


          No, we don't bundle any UML or (graphica) Modeling tools because we have not seen such things. We might build one at some point but right now we are focusing on good framework support.


          8. Does JBDS page preview for jsps and facelets projects work under linux? For myeclipse it currently does not which is frustrating me.


          Yes, we support windows, mac, linux 32-bit and 64-bit.

          If it does not work for you it is most likely because you don't have the stdlibc compatibility libraries installed.


          9. Doe JBOSS listen to their customers or take polls on what they would like to see in future JBDS features or plugins?


          We welcome anyone speaking up in the forums and our jira (which allows you to vote on our issues.) It was actually the votes that made us start pages.xml support for Seam since it was by far the most request feature for JBoss Tools 3.

          Similar Maven will have us our attention going forward because of it's many requests.


          10. Have you ever suspected of being vendor locked in when using certain aspects of this platform?


          If you use a specific feature that is unique for a platform that noone else has ? Is that vendor lockin or added value ?

          Seriously, that question is very loaded and not possible to answer without a specific case.


          11. Does JBDS support 64 bit architectures (I'm running Myeclipse on 64 bit CENTOS 5 with IBM JDK 6.2 x86_64)


          Yes (we haven't tested IBM JDK though, but we haven't had any report about issues for it).


          12. Does it provide full support for the JavaEE 5 spec?


          Define full support ?

          Can you develop JavaEE 5 spec - yes
          Does it have specific features for all elements in the JavaEE 5 spec - No (I don't think any IDE on the planet does)


          13. Does JBDS support maven?


          We don't have specific support for Maven but you can use m2eclipse with JBDS since we work with standard eclipse java and eclipse WTP projects.

          Going forward we will have more out-of-box maven support.


          14. What is speed and responsiveness like on JBDS on YOUR system?


          Every report about performance problems we have received is afaik fixed.


          15. Are the number of plugins sufficent for you to be productive and happy/satisified when working on medium to large projects? If not what would you like to see integrated into the platform?


          I would like to hear that too :)


          One thing I've noticed with various eclipse implementations is "feature conflict overload". So many plugins that it ends up becoming ridiculous. Ironicly instead of making things easier with the plugin technologies it ends up making things much more harder because the plugins end up conflicting with other plugins, libraries and technologies. I've stated this in a myeclipse forum for their use of icefaces not being compatible with facelets or tomahawk. I'm looking for a Feature rich but COHERENT and FOCUSED development platform.


          It is a constant battle and I keep fighting it ever day.
          Whenever we find something we find redundant or overly complex we try and adapt it to be simpler or go to the source and fix it (i.e. at eclipse.org) so it will be available in upcoming releases.


          Any links to additional info I can look at will be greatly appreciated.


          I assume you read all the online documentation we have on Developer Studio product site and http://www.jboss.com/products/devstudio/ and jboss.org/tools ?



          • 2. Re: JBoss Developer Studio vs MyEclipse
            nmatrix9

            Hey Max,

            Thank you for your quick response, your absolutely right number 10 is a very loaded question. I wanted to re-edit that question to be more specific and give some examples of how I experienced one vendor *ahem* try to actually break a maven plugin framework open standard to work only in their eclipse implementation (couldn't import or export standard maven projects or POM files). That caused a HUGE storm and you might have even read about it on serverside.com. or DZone. Anyways I've done some additional reading and JBoss Developer Studio looks like it's going to be my primary development platform due in part to your response here and the support for 64 bit jvms, and your support for facelets and tomahawk. I'm getting JBoss Studio Developer the moment I'm finished typing this response.

            Thank you,

            • 3. Re: JBoss Developer Studio vs MyEclipse
              maxandersen

              With respect to following standards and existing defacto standards we would never have done like that "one vendor" did - I would rather wait until we can do it right (hence why we haven't adapted a svn or maven provider last year because there were no clear good choice...this year that has changed ;)

              Btw. with respect to tomahawk we might disappoint you in JBDS 2 since the tomahawk templates were out-of-date and very incomplete we decided to remove it until someone (hopefully from the tomahawk community) would be able to come and maintain/refresh it.


              • 4. Re: JBoss Developer Studio vs MyEclipse
                nickboldt

                 

                "nmatrix9" wrote:
                7. Does JBoss come with GOOD QUALITY UML or Modeling tools?


                What are you looking for? There are a ton of Modeling projects at eclipse.org these days, for editing UML and UML2 models, drawing workflows (BPMN or BPMN2)...

                http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/
                http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/emf
                http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/emft
                http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/gmf

                And there's the jBPM Modeler in JBDS if you want an alternative to the BPMN ones at Eclipse.