9 Replies Latest reply on Aug 7, 2007 4:12 AM by jwenting

    On the quality of user posts.

      We NEED a way to moderate these forums.

      The amount of drivel http://www.thefreedictionary.com/drivel
      I read everyday is ridiculous.

      As soon as we convert these forums over to JBoss Portal, I'm going to re-write
      the moderation function myself, even though I hate GUI programming. :-)

      Buttons to move posts to:
      * The beginner's forum
      * An RTFM didn't read the FAQ forum.
      * A "your question is unanswerable" forum
      * An un(der)educated comment forum
      * Don't post user questions in the development section forum

      * Delete the user's post and send them an Email to stop ME TOO/CROSS POST/HIJACK

      By way of an example, I'm going to "answer" this morning's posts in the JCA

      I'm not going to actually answer the question since most of them are unanswerable
      or have been answered so many times before it is ridiculous.

      I'm going to answer them to show why they can't/won't be answered.

      The sample posts are:

        • 1. Re: On the quality of user posts.
          • 2. Re: On the quality of user posts.

            So that took *one hour* to answer five questions and provide all the links
            that the users couldn't be bothered searching for themselves.

            With the exception of the first question, we aren't any closer to answering these
            questions, but hopefully this is five users that will provide more useful information in future.

            And even do some of the work for themselves?... :-)

            • 3. Re: On the quality of user posts.

              Here we go again.

              A group of users who think this is the IBM AIX JDK Support forum:

              • 4. Re: On the quality of user posts.

                I've given up even trying to moderate to the forums, and just created a bad post forum
                instead :-)


                Now if I could figure out how to exlude that from the search function? :-)

                • 5. Re: On the quality of user posts.

                  You really are one arrogant prick aren't you?

                  • 6. Re: On the quality of user posts.

                    Arrogant, No
                    Frustrated, Yes

                    Incidently, I no longer read these forums (well maybe once a month looking for
                    potential bug reports). I would be bald from pulling my hair out otherwise. :-)

                    Maybe when we move to the JBoss Portal version of the forums with
                    a reasonable system of moderation (that removes these useless posts from the
                    search index so it becomes usable again), I'll go back to contributing regularly.

                    On a related story, I had a problem with installing MySQL back in January,
                    but I couldn't find the answer to the problem, just "a million" posts mostly unanswered,
                    with a few saying this is an FAQ or use search.

                    I'd like to thank all those time wasters that obscured the post where it was
                    really answered (I couldn't find it),
                    because it made me go through the MySQL source to figure
                    out what the problem was for myself, so I learnt something.
                    In fact, it was a none problem, at least for me, just an irrelevant warning. :-)

                    This just shows the problem is a generic one, not just these forums.
                    In general, people that have real problems suffer because of the laziness of a

                    • 7. Re: On the quality of user posts.

                      Adrian, you are the lizzard master :-)

                      • 8. Re: On the quality of user posts.

                        Adrian, I would like to give you a user's perspective on this issue.

                        I do not know if there is such a thing as a typical user, or even if that has any meaning. However, for the purposes of this argument, consider that I am it. I managed to get the JBoss advanced developer's certificate, so I guess that means that I am not completely stupid, and that I do have a certain understanding of JBoss. On the other hand I am certainly not brilliant enough ever to be a JBoss core developer. I do not think that I will ever understand all the intricacies of JBoss Class Loading. (Well, maybe if I devoted myself exclusively to the subject for a month. unfortunately a month I do not have). I love JBoss because it does give you some chance of understanding what is going on under the hood, even though, given the constraints of time and my intellectual capacity, I know that it will always be limited. Unfortunately I need eight hour's sleep a night, I work on projects with time constraints, and I do have a life outside JBoss.

                        People like me use JBoss, and act as champions for JBoss in our different companies. I guess you could even say, without exaggerating too much, that we provide your bread and butter.

                        I guess the seminal article on Forum questions is that of Eric Raymond
                        . When I ask a question in the forums I try to make it intelligent. Try but obviously fail. I have the distinction of never having had a question answered. My latest effort is a good example: http://www.jboss.org/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&t=107384 . With 22 views it remains gloriously unanswered. However I thought I had done all my homework. I went right through the PojoCache User Documentation. I went through the FAQ. I went through the examples and the tests. I tried to intelligently trace the classloaders concerned, and give sufficient information without giving too much. However there was one document I had overlooked: the TreeCache User Documentation. Silly me! This was definitely a stupid question. No, worse than that: a really idiotic question. I definitely deserve roasting over the burning embers of a TreeCache for at least a week, while assorted JBoss gurus gleefully stoke the flames with odd bits of PojoCache to keep the heat up. But, really, would it have been too difficult for someone to briefly point me in the right direction?

                        I think also, looking through the forums, that other people not quite so stupid as me feel the same sense of frustration. I take as an example this: http://www.jboss.org/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&t=99432 . I know this entry because I hit the same problem. The question was answered by Ben Wang, so obviously it was an intelligent question. However note how it starts:

                        I have read all of the documentation I can find on the JBoss AOP AND the JBoss Cache, and even looked through the JBoss Cache public forum from beginning to end, drilling into ANY of the cases whose subject might remotely indicate a potential solution to this. If there is any place my question indicates I have not looked, please do point me in that direction.

                        I sense a sort of desperation, and a definite lack of confidence that anyone will answer.

                        Incidentally, please realise that I am in no way criticising you, the core developers, or JBoss, or anyone. I am just asking you to have a little understanding. I know also that we can always pay JBoss for support and assistance.

                        I think also, and this is a related issue, not directly tied to JBoss, that there should be a valid place for Dummie's questions. (Dummies as in the sense of 'The Dummie's Guide to ..). The fact is that, however brilliant you may be, and however much time you may have, you can not be an expert in everything. That means that we are all, necessarily, dummies in something. (Unless, I suppose, you decide to limit yourself only to those areas where you are an expert, and ignore everything else.) If you work in an office you can probably ask a colleague in the next cubicle your Dummies' questions. Otherwise I do not know.


                        • 9. Re: On the quality of user posts.

                          Often the problem isn't that the user doesn't know he's posting incomplete questions or posting them in the wrong place but that the user doesn't care.

                          This may be less prevalent here than in other forums (like the Sun forums for example).
                          Combine that with an attitude of expecting instant gratification without having to put in any effort of their own, and you have a recipe for disaster.

                          This has in part to do with education (or the lack thereof that nowadays is called education), in part with cultures that raise children in an atmosphere where their every wish is your command, noone dares say no to them or punish them for transgressions for fear of being termed a bad parent or worse a child molester.

                          Together they create a user (or more generally a person) who doesn't know how to use the tools he has at his disposal, and doesn't care to figure out how to use them, instead expects others to instantly drop what they're doing and provide service free of charge without even being told what the problem is.