14 Replies Latest reply on Mar 16, 2004 5:31 AM by Holger Baxmann

    To Maven or not to Maven?

    Holger Baxmann Novice

      Are there any new devels toward a build, driven by Maven?

      Maybe inside the LLC. ??

      bax

        • 1. Re: CVS-HEAD of jboss-buildmagic does not compile
          Tom Elrod Master

          Hi,

          Maybe you can help me out.
          I wanted to checkout jboss-head by running the following command under Win2K :
          I:\Download\JBoss>cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/jboss co jboss-head

          But I was unable to run the build command as the error shown below :
          I:\Download\JBoss\jboss-head\build>build
          Calling ..\tools\bin\ant.bat -logger org.apache.tools.ant.NoBannerLogger
          Buildfile: build.xml

          _buildmagic:init:
          Trying to override old definition of task property

          _buildmagic:init:local-properties:
          [copy] Copying 1 file to I:\Download\JBoss\jboss-head\build

          BUILD FAILED
          file:I:/Download/JBoss/jboss-head/build/../tools/etc/buildfragments/tools.ent:35
          : taskdef class xdoclet.modules.jmx.JMXDocletTask cannot be found

          Total time: 4 seconds
          Press any key to continue . . .

          What did I miss ?

          Thanks for your help.

          • 2. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
            James Ward Newbie

            I personally would like to see it happen. A few threads ago (in this forum) there was some discussion about it.

            Even more reasons to move JBoss to Maven:
            - Maven RC1 was just released
            - Jason the Buildmagic author is now with Geronimo

            So, probably in true Open Source style, as soon as someone bucks up and Mavenizes the JBoss build, JBoss will switch. And if I do it maybe MarcF will offer me a job with JBoss Group. ;)

            • 3. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
              Scott Stark Master

              Show me a running build using maven that simplifies my life. Until then I live with the devil I know.

              • 4. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
                Heiko Rupp Master

                I was looking at maven yesterday and immediately dumped it again, as the first thing it did was to load tons of shit from the internet -- even jars that were in the distribution.
                This is not acceptable with dsl only.

                • 5. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
                  Holger Baxmann Novice

                  I have had the same view ...
                  ... until the the docs where read and understand.

                  ;-)

                  • 6. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
                    Scott Stark Master

                    Then submit your maven configuration which demonstrates your new found understanding for review.

                    • 7. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
                      Adrian Brock Master

                      What does Maven give you over Ant?

                      It looks like a scripting language to me (if you want to do anything beyond the trivial)
                      when what we really is something declaritive.

                      Something like:
                      1) Basic module metadata like name/version
                      2) Use these libraries
                      3) Reference these modules
                      4) Generate MBeans for these classes
                      5) Generate this javacc parser
                      6) Run these classes through RMIC
                      7) Create a number of packages for client/server install

                      I have gradually been moving our buildmagic/ant build in this direction and improving
                      the incremental nature of the build (there is still a long way to go ;-).
                      See for example: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/jboss/jbossmq/build.xml?annotate=1.37.2.9

                      Ideally, this metadata would be build neutral so a single definition
                      could be referenced from
                      ant, maven, eclipse, intellij, make or whatever you choose.

                      Down the line, I'd also like to see the reference metadata into a server
                      config tool so you can build your own jboss configuration without having
                      to worry too much about what you need.

                      Regards,
                      Adrian

                      • 8. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
                        Andrew Oliver Master

                        I think many of the things build magic does have been added to Ant. I don't really want Maven. I'd like to see an ant-only build that does what we need.

                        • 9. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
                          Bill Burke Master

                          Please, please no maven. Let's put our efforts into something more fruitful. The build system works, builds out-of-the-box, and most people know and understand ANT. I for one do not want to learn a new build system.


                          All build systems suck not matter what they are implemented in so get used to it.

                          Bill

                          • 10. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
                            Heiko Rupp Master

                            Tom: it is in my opinion not only about having a maven config, but also about the users out there that want to recompile jboss and have to install yet another tool, get used to it etc.
                            Also this introduced another dependency. If maven changes we have to adjust the config scripts etc.

                            • 11. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
                              Holger Baxmann Novice

                               

                              "starksm" wrote:
                              Then submit your maven configuration which demonstrates your new found understanding for review.


                              Would like to do this - but it is unfortunately owned by a customer as a part of a modular usage of JBoss.org (common, j2ee, till jmx-console) inside a very flexible, very customized customer multi-project build-system. Based on ant - driven by cruisecontrol - modeled and controlled by maven.

                              bax

                              • 12. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
                                Holger Baxmann Novice

                                 

                                "acoliver" wrote:
                                I think many of the things build magic does have been added to Ant. I don't really want Maven. I'd like to see an ant-only build that does what we need.


                                .. correct. As far as you ('we' sic!) need. But many customers do not need the monolithic download-or-checkout - run build.sh-buildmagic - use-what-you-get cycle. Their business is too fast and has to be too flexible to live out of an unknown (the-devil-you-know) dark black box.

                                Your point: it generates services for customizing the build and deploy of so-called modules, like JMS only but with persistant messages and transactions.

                                My point: With a highly configurable and therefore model driven (POM!) build process there will be much more service to do. For the customer improvements _and_ for JBoss improvements.

                                BTW: 'build' in my humble point of view means always Test&Build, means always developing, driving in production, migrating to the next version as a whole. The lifecycle of a _product_ should be the result, not only the sometimes, somewhere running binary.

                                bax

                                • 13. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
                                  Holger Baxmann Novice

                                   

                                  "telrod" wrote:
                                  I personally can't stand Maven (still have the scars from previous attempts in using it). However, I think Scott has the right idea. If someone really wants to use it and can put together a maven build that works, it would be worth reviewing what they have.


                                  Nobody will do this: it is infrastruture and infrastructure is uncool. Nukes is cool. So let's stand with current BS.

                                  ;-)

                                  bax

                                  • 14. Re: To Maven or not to Maven?
                                    Holger Baxmann Novice

                                     

                                    "pilhuhn" wrote:
                                    Tom: it is in my opinion not only about having a maven config, but also about the users out there that want to recompile jboss and have to install yet another tool, get used to it etc.
                                    Also this introduced another dependency. If maven changes we have to adjust the config scripts etc.



                                    Yep, like we all manage the other dependencies like ant, the xml parsers and XSLT, buildmagic, logging, the jdk's, the java compilers and org.not-apache.common ....


                                    Looks on my side a little bit a closed view, doesn't?

                                    bax