TSS, anonymous posting. Anyone JBoss care to explain? True o

[tldtld]

Having recently read Slashdot, TSS forums and various blogs (like this one: http://jroller.com/page/pyrasun/20040517#the_anonymous_fakers) I must say I'm shaken in my belief.

Having been happy with JBoss as such for over 2 years or so I'm actually somewhat taken back by this practice if true.

Having learned that the Internet is full of hatred and not to believe things at first sight, I want to give the JBoss group the benefit of doubt before I make my own judgement.

So could one of you please elaborate on this issue - from your own mouth - so I and a bunch of others can pass judgement without having only heard one side of the story? That side is putting up hefty "evidence" and "proof" - so please give your comments.

[darranl]

Is that your blog?

[admin]

Marc's response is on his blog: http://jboss.org/jbossBlog/blog/mfleury/

Joe/JBoss

[tldtld]

No - thats not my blog. Its just posted as an example of the discussion out there. A lot of other blogs didnt write their comments "as nice as this one", so didnt want to link to those.

Back on topic - so reading Marcs reply didnt really directly answer the question.

Indirectly the quote ""Astroturfing" is hereby banned at JBoss, starting with me." seems to indicate that up until now astroturfing was not banned, and the allegations are then true?

To quote you once more - "JBoss has the reputation as an in your face, straight up, tell it like it is company."

I call upon the "straight up" attitude and reply with a simply yes/no

Did the JBoss people do astroturfing as people claim, or did you not?

Thanks

[moonberry]

Hmm, silence...

I do not think you will get a simple yes/no answer.

I also do not think you will get any kind of admission or apology.

Reminds me of my son - who will never admit to doing anything wrong.

Kinda sad...

[tldtld]

I guess the silence is indirectly an admission.

It really saddens me that you can call yourself "professional open source company" and not only perform astroturfing (which is bad enough), but actually create false identities and post the stuff that was posted.

I have until now been a supporter of JBoss - both the company and software, but this really has been an eye opener regarding at least the company part.

For me I think it means I will look at other solutions and testdrive them, evaluate the people behind it and then see what others can offer in terms of "professionalism".

Sorry JBoss, but you really screwed up on this one. And the silence (and Marcs PR blog posting) did not do enough damage control to loose me as a customer. That might not be a big loss, but I guess a lot of the others who are leaving didnt give you the benefit of doubt and wanted to hear your side of the story.

[adrian.brock]

"tldtld" wrote:
I guess the silence is indirectly an admission.

It really saddens me that you can call yourself "professional open source company" and not only perform astroturfing (which is bad enough), but actually create false identities and post the stuff that was posted.

They are the same thing?

"tldtld" wrote:

Sorry JBoss, but you really screwed up on this one. And the silence (and Marcs PR blog posting) did not do enough damage control to loose me as a customer. That might not be a big loss

You are not a JBoss customer.
Nor are you a member of the JBoss community.
1) This is your only post in the forums
2) You have never made a contribution to the jboss-development mailing list
3) Your last post to the jboss-user mailing list was back in July 2002
http://www.mail-archive.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?method=and&format=short&config=jboss-user_lists_sourceforge_net&restrict=&exclude=&words=trylleskoven

Now who is creating false identities? This is just pure FUD.

[adrian.brock]

As far as the TheServerSide.com goes, I can only say
I have only ever made one post:
http://www.theserverside.com/user/userthreads.tss?user_id=195495

I have never posted as Daniel Westerdale or Duncan Eley, but then
my ISP (NTL in the UK) does not give me a static ip address.

[tldtld]

Well finally someone wakes up to defend themselves in clear tones. Unfortunally it seems no one else of the JBoss group wants to speak out on this.

I am not spreading FUD or anything. I am a customer too. Just because I'm not posting, doesnt mean I dont spread the word.

I'm a SW development manager in RL (mail me if you want my work email and info - this is my private email address), having produced a product running at more than 100 customers (a lot of them big accounts) in Denmark - and guess what - sitting on top of JBoss that we bundle. My decision! So dont try to point finger at me as if I dont exist and that I'm someone hiding behind a virtual account.

If you read up in the first post, I actually give you the benefit of doubt. More than a lot of others - before passing judgement.

But it clearly seems that none of you want to say "no - we didnt do this". Instead Marc writes a PR piece, saying "from now on its not allowed". Indicating you actually did this. And you Adrian write "I never posted as name X and Y". How am I to believe you didnt post as name Z from your statement?

All I ask for is a clear YES or NO from your guys. YES we did this, sorry wont happen again. Or NO, its all something someone misunderstood.

Dont you see that by hiding behind word games you guys are digging yourself deeper into this?

I dont want to spread FUD, make JBoss go down in flames or be anything else but a customer that sees his favorite product do something non-ethical (apparently). The company I work for cannot afford to answer questions like "Your product comes with JBoss - isnt that the people that XXX?"

THAT is why I ask, because this could be an actual threat to our product as its bundled today.

[adrian.brock]

Thomas,

All I can say is that "it wasn't me". And I don't mean in the Bart Simpson sense :-)
I can't speak for others.

I often post on other forums using a pseudonym.
e.g. until recently (about 6 months ago)
I was known as "warjort"on these forums. Another one is "ejort".
Both are corruptions of "idiot".
I ran an sql over the database to convert all my posts to [e-mail]

There is nothing sinister here. I prefer being known as an idiot rather than my real name.
But it is seen as more professional to use my jboss id, even if some complain that I
am rude:
http://www.jboss.org/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&t=48714

As Marc said in his blog. We are forthright, we do not hide what we feel
or see a requirement for political correctness.
We all live and breath open source where all our work is out there for people to criticise.

If you don't agree, fair enough, but our opinions have little impact
on the quality of JBoss as a product.

Regards,
Adrian

[adrian.brock]

"tldtld" wrote:
How am I to believe you didnt post as name Z from your statement?

You only have my word. But I can categorically deny that I made those posts.

If I knew how to get their e-mail addresses from theserverside.com I would ask
them to confirm this fact.

All I can say is that NTL is probably? the largest broadband ISP in the UK, so it is
highly likely that serious computer professionals use it.

They are also a JBoss Inc. customer :-)

[bwallis42]

First, I am also a bit concerned about this issue as well. I am not a JBoss developer just a developer who has also championed JBoss in our company with some success. Hopefully we will become a jboss partner/OEM in the near future.

"tldtld" wrote:
I dont want to spread FUD, make JBoss go down in flames or be anything else but a customer that sees his favorite product do something non-ethical (apparently). The company I work for cannot afford to answer questions like "Your product comes with JBoss - isnt that the people that XXX?"

THAT is why I ask, because this could be an actual threat to our product as its bundled today.

This can't be left with no response though. Most software in the world today is delivered bundled with/to run on a product who's company has twice been convicted of anti competitive behaviour (amongst other things). In the light of that, if JBoss has been in some way guilty as charged (and that is not proven in my mind) it is a very minor offence compared to some!