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      • 15. Re: How to invoke a business process in JBoss
        Brad O'Hearne Newbie

        Ronald,

        I'm surprised. Community support or not, you're a moderator, and your actions reflect on the JBoss organization, and should be carrying the torch for courtesy and helpfulness. But yet again, when given the opportunity to respond with courtesy and grace, you vent.

        "kukeltje" wrote:
        Can I send you a bill somewhere for the hour I spent answering your posts (Since you are a consultant, I think you have the money)?


        You provided no answers. You RTFM'd me more than once, and took a jab at me to boot. And in the end, the only thing you provided was evidence that either you weren't aware of the differences between jBpm 3.0.3 and 3.1.1, OR that you did know the differences but were more concerned with blowing someone flak for answering what you considered to be too simple a question. As it turned out, my questions were legit, because I was using a different version of jBPM than you assumed (but didn't think it significant enough to ask) I was using, and I wasted 4 days trying to get to a simple answer.

        Ronald, let me ask you a question. It is said that "an organization is the shadow of a leader cast long". Does this exchange accurately represent the JBoss organization in general, or only you? I'd sincerely like to know, as I'd really like to spare the customers I service unnecessary indignation at the hands of those whose technology they are employing.

        Moving on,

        Brad


        • 16. Re: How to invoke a business process in JBoss
          Ronald van Kuijk Master

          No answers? I'll only respond to one thing now, the 3.0.3/3.1.1 thing.

          The moment you mentioned you were using 3.03 instead of the latest 3.1.x you got an answer that 3.03 and 3.1 are different. If you had stated that earlier, you would have gotten a more specific response. Still then, the examples/testcases that come with the 3.03 source clearly show how to use the api.

          I'll let Tom/Koen respond to the other questions (Assuming you've read the fine document about posting smart questions) and if they want me to stop answering questions, I will, certainly. I do not want my personal attitude to have a negative impact on JBoss, so that is up to them.

          In the future, I'll *not* respond to *any* basic questions again.

          May the source be with you

          _________________
          Ronald
          Former jBPM forum moderator

          • 17. Re: How to invoke a business process in JBoss
            Brad O'Hearne Newbie

             

            "kukeltje" wrote:
            No answers? I'll only respond to one thing now, the 3.0.3/3.1.1 thing.

            The moment you mentioned you were using 3.03 instead of the latest 3.1.x you got an answer that 3.03 and 3.1 are different. If you had stated that earlier, you would have gotten a more specific response. Still then, the examples/testcases that come with the 3.03 source clearly show how to use the api.


            The very demo on the JBoss web site uses 3.0.3, so it is reasonable to conclude that people would be using 3.0.3. Likewise, those who will recognize that there is a *significant* difference between versions isn't going to be the new person on the scene, its going to be those who have used both and know that there's a difference.

            But more importantly, you chose to respond (and to comment on my lack of knowledge you perceived) without knowing the version -- and you didn't think it important to clarify the version prior to responding. If there's guidelines for intelligent posting, then I would presume it follows for responding, no? And continuing further, when you saw me put up two posts stating that your references to JbpmContext weren't found in either the starter's kit or regular jBPM distribution, and additionally when I posted that the Google references referred to things not in the starter kit, both of which would be tip-offs to someone who knew the version differences, you didn't respond to those either, with an answer, or with a "sorry I assumed..." reply. So pertaining to the actual issue at hand, which revolved around the fact that there were significant differences in jBPM versions (which as a newcomer I would have no way of knowing, but as an "expert", you would) you provided no answers.

            "kukeltje" wrote:

            In the future, I'll *not* respond to *any* basic questions again.


            No one asked you not to respond -- you are obviously knowledgeable, and I prefer that you do respond. The only request was for everyone to be courteous and helpful, and dispense with the vague RTFM responses.

            As for me, I'm not even upset with you, and as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather call you my friend and get back to jBPM.

            Cheers,

            Brad


            • 18. Re: How to invoke a business process in JBoss
              Ronald van Kuijk Master

              OK, Peace, Live Long And Prosper, well at least at the end of this post.

              Some constructive comments:

              The very demo on the JBoss web site uses 3.0.3, so it is reasonable to conclude that people would be using 3.0.3.


              To be honest, you are the first. At least from the moment that the download page on either the .org or .com site only showed the 3.0x version while there was a 3.1 version. In most cases we get questions about the latest version.

              without knowing the version


              If you look in the forum we often ask the version where we perceive it to be important (the gpd) or get the impression an older version could be used (not in this case). The document about asking smart questions states for the poster (you in this case) to give detailed information about your environment and not assume the reader (me in this case) is clairvoiant. It prevents an additional post (what is your env?) and thus work and delay.

              bpmContext weren't found in either the starter's kit or regular jBPM distribution, and additionally when I posted that the Google references referred to things not in the starter kit,


              I think people before you screwed it for you by not using search at all and often wrong. This is such a big frustration that I maybe jumped to conclusions to soon. otoh, it could have been a trigger for you as well to see that you were using a different version. Again, to prevent these things is what the document about asking smart questions is about. Regarding the 'sorry...' I still am not (are you;-)). The moment you stated:

              Perhaps this is the source of my questions.


              you got an answer within 4 minutes....... 4 minutes...(thanks cpob) that there is a difference.

              Now regarding the future, If you promise me to give the 'ask smart questions' to your customers, tell them to look in the source, teach them how to use the search etc...etc...etc, I'll promise they'll get a decent response (If I'm the one responding), but it still could be that they get an occasional RTFM, STFW (aka google is your friend). Tell them not to be offended (as stated in the 'smart questions...'). If I realy want to offend people, I would tell them to off, get lost or something similar.

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