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1. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
adrian.brock Feb 22, 2005 4:32 PM (in response to starksm64)Ok with me, but..
There is still no integration between the microcontainer and JBoss AOP
I haven't even got as far as doing the jmx integration yet
system2 does not have a working aspectized deployer AFAIK?
Until those basic features have working unit tests, the integration work
seems premature to me. -
2. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
bill.burke Feb 22, 2005 4:52 PM (in response to starksm64)I don't see why any JMX work would require interceptors/AOP. Not sure when I'll get to the rest of the AOP work
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3. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
adrian.brock Feb 22, 2005 5:06 PM (in response to starksm64)What? JMX already has interceptors (persistence, caching),
just not the standard ones (AOP's).
This is a major point of the excercise.
We don't want seven different implementations of interceptors produced
by seven different projects.
I'm tired of arguing this around and around. -
4. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
bill.burke Feb 22, 2005 5:14 PM (in response to starksm64)I'm saying that, why is AOP blocking any JMX over Microcontainer work? Which services (if any) actually use JMX interceptors?
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5. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
adrian.brock Feb 22, 2005 5:19 PM (in response to starksm64)Look we are the plumbers and electricians of the computer market.
Historically, one of the major advances in those trades was the availbility
of standardized replaceable parts.
We need to leave the handcrafted world behind where each project
designs there own containers and services.
We use the aop container and its advices to add behaviour to all projects. -
6. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
adrian.brock Feb 22, 2005 5:23 PM (in response to starksm64)"bill.burke@jboss.com" wrote:
I'm saying that, why is AOP blocking any JMX over Microcontainer work?
There are two integrations required that should be transparent to each user.
1) It should be possible for anything in the pojo registry to be available on the JMX Bus (DynamicMBean introduction).
2) It should be possible for an MBean to be injectable into a POJO (MBeanProxy).
We can't do (1) without the Microcontainer/AOP integration. -
7. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
adrian.brock Feb 22, 2005 5:26 PM (in response to starksm64)"bill.burke@jboss.com" wrote:
Which services (if any) actually use JMX interceptors?
The JMX interceptors are mappings onto AOP advices which requires at least
a proxy advisor in front of the javabean/mbean.
The ones defined by the spec (ModelMBean) are:
1) Logging (trivial)
2) Peristence ("serialization" of attribute state)
3) Caching (really idempotent with a timeout)
4) MBeanAttributeNotification (Obserable) -
8. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
bill.burke Feb 22, 2005 5:27 PM (in response to starksm64)Adrian, I seriously don't understand what you're bitching about...With JBossWorld, TSS, AOSD, aspect library, I haven't been able to get ahead yet with the AOP changes that are required by the microcontainer. The changes to AOP are considerable and will take me some time...
I'm simply asking, Why is AOP blocking any current work on JB5? -
9. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
starksm64 Feb 22, 2005 5:47 PM (in response to starksm64)It may be premature, but the point is having one guiding task that enumerates the prequisites. The current tasks and forum posts are too scattered to know when an initial pojo server is going to exist.
I also want to get a feeling for how the unification is going. Obviously slower than expected and I have to ask why there is a lack of clarity on what was agreed to be the priority. The creation of an aspect library is a scalable task. Unification of the plumbing is not. -
10. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
bill.burke Feb 22, 2005 5:49 PM (in response to starksm64)There's probably a lot of other work that can be done before anybody blocks on AOP?
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11. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
adrian.brock Feb 22, 2005 6:01 PM (in response to starksm64)It's not me that's bitching.
People keep asking me for status reports and what is the biggest stumbling block.
I keep telling them, I'm waiting for the aop integration,
so we can wrap pojos in a container.
What I am bitching about is that every thread turns into
why do we do need to XXX?, where XXX has already been agreed
as a good idea (and should be done) over a year ago.
Like this unified interceptors discussion in the current thread. -
12. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
starksm64 Feb 22, 2005 6:02 PM (in response to starksm64)Yes, its me that is bitching. Why isn't the unification the number one priority and getting done?
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13. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
adrian.brock Feb 22, 2005 6:20 PM (in response to starksm64)"scott.stark@jboss.org" wrote:
It may be premature, but the point is having one guiding task that enumerates the prequisites. The current tasks and forum posts are too scattered to know when an initial pojo server is going to exist.
I also want to get a feeling for how the unification is going. Obviously slower than expected and I have to ask why there is a lack of clarity on what was agreed to be the priority. The creation of an aspect library is a scalable task. Unification of the plumbing is not.
The roadmap I originally wrote is here:
http://docs.jboss.org/nightly/microkernel/docs/roadmap/en/html/
This along with the classloading task are replacements for the crappy
prototypes I did in the M1 stage because I knew there was no way of
getting the real stuff for that release.
I agreed with Bill that we would take the AOP integration in baby steps
(i.e. incrementally), starting with the ClassAdapter/instance advisor
which is the main plumbing rather than trying to implement everything at once.
It was know at the time that Bill has other commitments, like three upcoming
conferences to prepare for, so it would be difficult for him to get it finished. -
14. Re: Update the jboss-pojo build to create a new minimal conf
bill.burke Feb 22, 2005 6:26 PM (in response to starksm64)Since adrian came down to Boston, I've spent 2 days on Aspect Library(so that I had something to present at JBossWorld), 3 days on presentations for JBoss World, AOSD, and TSS., 3 days on AOP integration with microcontainer, 2 days on fixing EJB3 bugs. One day being sick. I'm doing the best I can....AOP integration is just a lot of work to be done.