jsr-299-public

[asookazian]

http://wiki.jcp.org/boards/index.php?b=913

what's the deal with these relatively new JCP forums?  don't seem very popular/used...

[nickarls]

I didn't even know they existed, it's one link among others in the quicklinks...

[asookazian]

then Sun/JCP is not doing a good job of advertising these forums perhaps...

[luxspes]

Nobody answers to posts in those forums. When I raised an issue there regarding the JPA spec it was completely ignored... until I finally got an answer my in own blog post on the same subject! (for which I would like to thank Emmanuel Bernard a lot, but I would have expected more visibility at http://wiki.jcp.org than at my very unknown personal blog)

[sboscarine]

I feel your pain.  I've been begging JBoss to host a JSF 2.0 forum because the JCP ones are so dismal.

[dan.j.allen]

The public forums for the JSRs are brand new. There has been practically no publicity for them and developers are only tripping over them by chance. (A link was added from each JSR page to the mapped forum).

I'm working with the JCP to get them improved and raise awareness, primarily through the JSF 2 community. We'll be announcing them at JSFSummit and hopefully having some key links to them established by then.

[asookazian]

[jsr-314-public] ProjectStage Enum (JSF2)
Posted:Fri 03 of Jul, 2009 (10:30)

That's new not brand new to me, sorry.  Microsoft crushes in the marketing space, no problem.  This is just lame.  But then again, Sun is currently in a transitionary period (Oracle), and has other priorities...

We corporate devs live off of books and forums, so this is a very important issue.  In the particular case of 299, it's not a big deal b/c this forum exists.  But for other JSRs, it's a problem...

[dan.j.allen]

That's new not brand new to me, sorry.

That post was made during the test period. The forums went live (meaning they were linked from the JSR pages) only about a week or two ago.

Yes, I agree Sun is struggling at the moment. But I feel like it is our responsibility as a community to step in and apply the pressure necessary to get this rectified.

[asookazian]

Dan Allen wrote on Nov 24, 2009 23:18:

That's new not brand new to me, sorry.

That post was made during the test period. The forums went live (meaning they were linked from the JSR pages) only about a week or two ago.

Yes, I agree Sun is struggling at the moment. But I feel like it is our responsibility as a community to step in and apply the pressure necessary to get this rectified.

My apologies, I didn't know when they went live.  So then it is (what I would consider) brand new.  So how can we apply the pressure to rectify?  Isn't it really a matter of communicating the availability of the forums?  The forums are working after all, no?  All the EG member vendors (like Oracle, Redhat, Sybase, etc.) should advertise as well...

Why can't you core devs, for example, at the big conferences advertise this?

[luxspes]

Dan Allen wrote on Nov 24, 2009 23:18:

That's new not brand new to me, sorry.

That post was made during the test period. The forums went live (meaning they were linked from the JSR pages) only about a week or two ago.

Sorry but that is not accurate. Forums were linked from the JSR pages since at least 30 of Jul, 2009, I know because at this page I clicked where it says: Please direct comments on this JSR to:  jsr-317-public to reach the forums and write a post on that date. That is way more that a week or too ago.

[luxspes]

Arbi Sookazian wrote on Nov 25, 2009 00:22:


My apologies, I didn't know when they went live.

Don't apologize, it was Sun job to let you know you were not supposed to use the forums (and also they have been linked for months)

So then it is (what I would consider) brand new.  So how can we apply the pressure to rectify?  Isn't it really a matter of communicating the availability of the forums?  The forums are working after all, no?  All the EG member vendors (like Oracle, Redhat, Sybase, etc.) should advertise as well...

I guess that is the hard part, IMO the JSR is not designed to care about community input. We are only background noise for them (with notable exceptions like Weld). The problem is that for JSR to succed they would have to be built as Weld, based on what is learned  from pioneer project (Seam) but must of the time the just come up with something out of thin air, like the f***** up JSR-47, if they had listened to the log4j community something like Slf4j would have been the result instead of the worst logging api ever...

They need to realize that the only way to have a product that will be adopted by the developer community is if it has its roots in the developer community, but I can not think of a way to force them to do that... I guess it is a matter of evolution... those that ignore their comunities will die the JSR-47 dead.

[dan.j.allen]

It's obvious that communication about these forums has been poor and inaccurate. The argument about how new they are is irrelevant. We know they exist today. At this point, we just need to move forward.

First of all, I love the passion. Voices like yours need to be heard because the JCP simply has to improve. Red Hat is putting effort into giving the community a voice in the JCP. I'm personally working on that through JSR-314. I can't change everything at once, but I'm hoping that JSR-314 can serve as a model to the JCP for how to run other JSRs.

We could go off and create forums on Google Groups, at JBoss.org or anywhere else outside of the JCP. But to do so would be giving up on the JCP and leading it further into disrepair. If we are going to participate in the JCP, then it is our responsibility to do what we can to improve it. It's going to be a mess for a while, but with enough momentum we can turn it around. That's Red Hat's vision, anyway.