1 4 5 6 7 8 Previous Next 119 Replies Latest reply on Jul 25, 2014 12:45 PM by ricardo wolosker Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
      • 105. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
        Frank Cornelis Apprentice

        henk de boer wrote:

         

        Indeed, otherwise they almost might as well go fully closed source and only sell binaries with a support contract. I think that detailed bug reports and community provided patches are part of what makes Jboss AS as good as it is.

         

        "community provided patches"

         

        I think it's a bit overestimated how much the community actually patches itself, given the complexity of the JBoss AS internals (which are not publicly documented: where is the javadoc?). If you take away all patchers that are somehow on the JBoss payroll, you end up with two groups: one that yields one/two-line patches, and the other one being kind of empty. It's almost impossible to do big patches without working full-time on JBoss AS, in which case you would probably be better off as JBoss employee.

         

        The one thing in which the community does make a great job, is in providing feedback. Now, JBoss gets feedback from two channels: community and paying customers (where the feedback is more like complaining once money is involved, anyway). Of course on a new EAP they don't have any customers yet. So right before they do a new EAP you notice a slightly better output (in releases) towards the community in order to maximize the community feedback performance.

         

        My view of it all is that we only get to see frequent good community releases right before a new EAP lifecycle (which is a totally different setup compared to RHEL/Fedora). All stuff in between in of average quality not worth installing (again, Fedora does keep a stable quality and release cycle, not taking that Cow into account).

        And this is the big difference with RHEL/Fedora. There you indeed have a huge community of external patchers (here RedHat is more acting like an integrator).

         

        I'm always interested in other people's view on the JBoss strategy... fun to think about it.

        • 106. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
          kanci Newbie

          Thanks for the clarification. I suppose "Final" is the problem. What is the last part of the version? I suppose, to be able to sort the different versions Alpha, Beta, CR, Final in a Maven way. Is it correct? There were some GA for generally available. What is the strategy? Is there a page clarifying the community about tagging, difference between eap/as etc.? If the release is just a base for eap, why don't name it like product_base or eap_base or interim? Actually I'm quite okey with 7.1.1.Final - it's final, nothing else to come after that ;-). Seriously, I would take a good name and address the community with clarification. Oracle did few wrong steps with community, one don't need to make same mistakes himself.

          • 107. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
            Ricardo Harari Newbie

            I dont understand how making harder the community life is an strategy to maximize profit.

            Download the source, disable the test cases to finally get the binary. Really?

            • 108. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
              kanci Newbie

              Well actually you can now download EAP 6.1.0 Alpha, which is a successor to 7.1.1.Final, see https://community.jboss.org/blogs/mark.little/2013/03/07/eap-binaries-available-for-all-developers.

              The download page, see http://www.jboss.org/jbossas/downloads, is not that optimal, as you expect JBoss AS 6.1.0 Alpha and not EAP 6.1.0 Alpha. So you need to know this fact or read the description and ask yourself what the hell - version 6 build on top of version 7 ;-)? But the thread's problem is solved now. The communication part not completely.

               

              Just let me thank RedHat/JBoss to publish the EAP packages to all developers this way, that's great!

              • 109. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
                Bernd Eckenfels Novice

                Martin Kanich schrieb:

                 

                Well actually you can now download EAP 6.1.0 Alpha, which is a successor to 7.1.1.Final

                Yes you can, but you can't use it, as it is no free software anymore. It is full of branding, and I am still unclear what "free for developer" mean. Can I modify/fix it and redistribute it? And why is there no Git Tag for the final version, and where is actually the SCM for the final version?

                • 110. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
                  Tomaž Cerar Master

                  Bernd Eckenfels wrote:

                   

                  Martin Kanich schrieb:

                   

                  Well actually you can now download EAP 6.1.0 Alpha, which is a successor to 7.1.1.Final

                  Yes you can, but you can't use it, as it is no free software anymore. It is full of branding, and I am still unclear what "free for developer" mean. Can I modify/fix it and redistribute it? And why is there no Git Tag for the final version, and where is actually the SCM for the final version?

                  Bernd,

                  there are no restrictions using EAP 6.1.0 alpha, beyong LGPL or any what was there in other jboss as release to date.

                  So you can redistribute/modify it freely as long as you comply with LGPL

                  There is Git tag 7.2.0.Final that you can find on github https://github.com/jbossas/jboss-as/tags

                   

                  All this is explained on faq page http://www.jboss.org/jbossas/faq

                   

                  --

                  tomaz

                  • 111. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
                    Ricardo Harari Newbie

                    Develop with an alpha version and also changing the major version seems risky at this phase of the project. We will wait the final version of EAP. I've already upgraded to newest final version and problem solved.

                    Early adopters or more experienced developers can do this task easily but for others can be very frustrating compile the AS. I think Jboss AS will loose market share with this approach.

                    My concern is what is behind the scenes with these decision. What will be the next step?

                    Jboss is from far one of my favorite AS and hope RH preserves the spirit of open source

                    • 112. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
                      Tomaž Cerar Master

                      Ricardo Harari wrote:

                       

                      Develop with an alpha version and also changing the major version seems risky at this phase of the project. We will wait the final version of EAP. I've already upgraded to newest final version and problem solved.

                      Early adopters or more experienced developers can do this task easily but for others can be very frustrating compile the AS. I think Jboss AS will loose market share with this approach.

                      My concern is what is behind the scenes with these decision. What will be the next step?

                      Jboss is from far one of my favorite AS and hope RH preserves the spirit of open source

                      JBoss EAP 6.1.0 Alpha1 == JBoss 7.2.0.Final

                      There is no difference in it but name of the version.

                      Alpha1 just denotates that this is first version of EAP that was not harened yet, as EAP has to survice much more vigours testing than usual community releases.

                      This testing and hardening takes lots of time (in months) and in some cases even removing features that are not stable enough,

                      or in short 6.1.0.Alpha1 is no less stable than any other .Final community release that we ever did, in my personal view it is much better than any other community release before it.

                       

                      --

                      tomaz

                      • 113. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
                        xiang yingbing Master

                        Bernd

                               I have the same question.

                               Moreover,  I dislike alpha version! I just want to use Final version.

                         

                              The GIT Tag for the Final version is displayed now. We can build it ourselves.

                              That is why I come back from glassfish.

                              (Glassfish is excellent too, but document is so pool! Their response is so slow!)

                        • 114. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
                          xiang yingbing Master

                          Early adopters or more experienced developers can do this task easily but for others can be very frustrating compile the AS. I think Jboss AS will loose market share with this approach.

                          ~~~~I agree with you completely. I cleaned my computer and compiled JBoss AS 7.2.0 Final several times on both windows and linux OS, but there were always test failure. At last I ignored the test cases. I am NOT sure what I compiled is a correct product.

                           

                          My concern is what is behind the scenes with these decision. What will be the next step?

                          ~~~~Obviously, Redhat want us pay for EAP Version. If we do NOT pay for it, then we must endure such frustrating things.

                           

                          Jboss is from far one of my favorite AS and hope RH preserves the spirit of open source

                          ~~~~I think it is impossible now. When a pig is fat enough, it will be killed and sold.

                           

                           

                          No matter what decison RH makes, I always support JBoss.

                          I like JBoss AS and guys in JBoss. They are really kind and warm hearted!

                          • 115. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
                            henk de boer Master

                            Frank Cornelis wrote:

                             

                            If you take away all patchers that are somehow on the JBoss payroll, you end up with two groups: one that yields one/two-line patches, and the other one being kind of empty. It's almost impossible to do big patches without working full-time on JBoss AS, in which case you would probably be better off as JBoss employee.

                             

                            I've got a feeling you have NO idea how much effort can go into a single line patch. It can be days on end or even weeks. I've also got a feeling that you have NO idea how much energy it draws from developers who have to continously context switch to a new issue, read it's description, try to reproduce it, write the one-line patch, test the code, close the issue.

                            • 116. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
                              henk de boer Master

                              Ricardo Harari wrote:

                               

                              I dont understand how making harder the community life is an strategy to maximize profit.

                               

                              I think the idea is that developers are supposed to get so fed up with all the hassle and uncertainty that they just buy EAP so they can get back to coding.

                               

                              The thing is that developers can privately (on their own workstation, for local tests) use EAP anyway, and any company of sufficient size will buy a support contract anyway (totally independent on how weird and difficult it is to get binaries without one).

                              • 117. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
                                Kamlesh Shah Newbie

                                This is still the transition face for people to understand the adoption technique for open source product. Further technology is changing at a faster pace. Thouse who want to be comfortable using open source technology, should spend some time learning module based development, maven - build tool, usage of source repository etc. Further I suggest to look into the concept of building the required product by assembling kernel plus required modules. This way you will be saving on many unwanted and unstabilised modules from being poluting the SDLC/logs etc.

                                • 118. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
                                  Tony Herstell Master

                                  Kamlesh,

                                   

                                  I.M.H.O.

                                   

                                  Yes to Maven

                                   

                                  No to Build process (for development).. and I will jump through hoops to remove the need to have one as Exploded Deployment is sooo productive and if this means putting in decoupling via web services for stuff that needs to be built then I would rather do that than have a build system to even develop - KISS!

                                   

                                  C.I. can, and should, have a build system for building and running tests etc.

                                   

                                  JBoss AS just works, and thats its beauty, exploded deployment is so easy from MyEclipse (and probably Eclipse but not used that in years); don't kill the advantages!

                                  • 119. Re: Jboss 7.1.2.Final is only for EAP?
                                    ricardo wolosker Newbie

                                    a versão 7.1.1 tinha BUGs de JSP como por exemplo o tag-pooling. A versão 7.1.2 não existe mais, virou EAP. Isso é chato porque o EAP não roda no eclipse comum, só do da RED HAT

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