Using pre-build EAP 6.1.0.Final binary in production

[fabrizio.benedetti]

Ok, I am aware of being boring, but I'm a bit confused and I want to make a very simple question.

Can I download the pre-built binary and use it in production, without buy any subscription (as it was once in the good old days pre RedHat)?

[jaikiran]

Fabrizio Benedetti wrote:

Can I download the pre-built binary and use it in production, without buy any subscription (as it was once in the good old days pre RedHat)?

Using EAP GA in production requires subscription. Pre Red Hat there was no EAP. If you mean using community JBoss AS (now known as WildFly) edition in production without a subscription, then yes you can do that.

[fabrizio.benedetti]

Thanks jaikiran, now it's clear.

[biffen]

Hi jaikiran

Sorry, the only thing I wanted to know and to be crystal clear for me is could I use
ANY of the available downloads in production environment ABOVE:
"6.1.0 Alpha  EAP alpha built from AS7  2013-03-07  LGPL  Developer discussion boards watched by Red Hat"
version available on:
http://www.jboss.org/jbossas/downloads
page?

That version was stated OK in last "Q" on page:
http://www.jboss.org/jbossas/faq
regarding this!?

Regards
Per

[jaikiran]

The EAP binaries have their own release cycle. The EAP 6.1 release cycle had a Alpha, a Beta which ultimately led to the 6.1 GA.

The 6.1 Alpha binary is made available for free (both for development and production use) to the entire community. This allows community users who have been using the community server JBoss AS (now renamed to WildFly) a chance to get the bug fixes and possibly other features which had been added while the productization work was in progress.

The 6.1 Beta binary is made available under the zero-dollar developer subscription scheme (the terms and conditions are here http://www.jboss.org/developer-program/termsandconditions). This zero dollar subscription allows users to use the binray in development environments but not in production, unless of course the user additionally is also a paid subscriber/customer of EAP.

The 6.1 GA binary is available for production use only for paid subscribers/customers. Zero-dollar subscribers can use it only for development purposes. In other words, the usage terms are the same as 6.1 Beta binary.

I hope that clears things.

Edited by Jaikiran - Added clarification for 6.1 GA binary.

Edited again by Jaikiran - This time to use present tense instead of past tense in the sentences, to avoid any unnecessary confusion on whether the terms and conditions still apply.

[jaikiran]

By the way, a summary of my previous reply is already available in the http://www.jboss.org/jbossas/faq:

Q. Will you also release EAP 6.1.0 CR / GA and future EAP 6.1.x point releases in the community?
A. Major (x.0) and minor (6.x) EAP releases (other than Alphas which are freely available) will be available with a paid production subscription or with a zero-dollar developer subscription.  Security updates and patches are only available with a paid subscription.

[biffen]

Hi jaikiran

Thanks for the clarification.

Just one thing more, you mentioned:
"The 6.1 Alpha binary "was made" available for free (both for development and production use) to the entire community."
and that means that it is STILL true today. If that is the case we will use that
version in our production environment now and that is why I need to be 110% sure on
this right now.

Regards
Per

[jaikiran]

Per Lindström wrote:

Just one thing more, you mentioned:
"The 6.1 Alpha binary "was made" available for free (both for development and production use) to the entire community."
and that means that it is STILL true today.

Yes, the terms and conditions are still the same for that version.

Per Lindström wrote:

If that is the case we will use that
version in our production environment now and that is why I need to be 110% sure on
this right now.

Feel free to use it in production.

[biffen]

Hi jaikiran

Thanks for all help regarding this issue!

Regards
Per

[robert.geisler]

hi jaikiran,

thanks for clearing it up! i read the faq before but did not find it that clearly explained.

i have an additional question concerning redistributing JBoss AS versions:

we deploy our Java EE application bundled with a JBoss AS copy to the (production) environment of our customers.

is this legal with the EAP 6.1.0.Final version if we do not have a paid subscription?

is this legal for any future EAP x.y.z version?
is this at least legal for community versions?? oO

currently i suppose we should use community versions only (and build it ourself from source), right...?

thanks in advance!

regards

robert

[jorsol]

Hi jaikiran,

What are the restrictions using JBoss EAP 6.1 *with* a subcription?

Can I use it with n sockets and n cores? is there a limit in memory (64 bits of course)?

And most important, can I use it with n servers? deploy n instances in domain mode and stantalone mode?

thanks for the clarification...

[jaikiran]

Jorge Solórzano Almanza wrote:

Hi jaikiran,

What are the restrictions using JBoss EAP 6.1 *with* a subcription?

Can I use it with n sockets and n cores? is there a limit in memory (64 bits of course)?

And most important, can I use it with n servers? deploy n instances in domain mode and stantalone mode?

thanks for the clarification...

That's something the sales/support team will be able to answer. I have no idea about that thing. There's a "Contact Sales" link on the page here http://www.redhat.com/products/jbossenterprisemiddleware/application-platform/ which is where you might want to ask this question.

[ulrichromahn]

Hi Jaikiran,

your post and your very confident assertion makes me believe that you must be a RedHat/JBoss employee and should know what you are talking about. However, since this made me very curious, I started digging a bit deeper and believe you may have gotten it wrong.

However, before I go into details, let me first make the normal disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor a legal expert in software licenses or open source licenses. However, I did quite a bit of consulting around open source in my past and as a result have worked with legal experts in that matter. BUT, please don't base your decisions on the statements and assertions made by me in this following post, since I also may have gotten it completely wrong!

Another disclaimer, before someone from RedHat may shoot me :

My lengthy post below is not intended to encourage people to use EAP 6.1 in production without a support agreement. I personally believe in the value of this support and would everybody encourage to buy one. If you or your organization to opt using JBoss AS without support from JBoss, you really should know what you are doing and then you definitely should build it yourself from the public sources. That way, you will (hopefully) get the proper knowledge to support yourself.

My main reason was to point out a hole in the current setup and the potential legal implications.

Let me challenge you and claim that I believe your assertions above are legally unsupported. I have just downloaded EAP 6.1.0 Final available here http://www.jboss.org/jbossas/downloads and took a closer look at both the binaries as well as the accompagnied sources.

As per this site, EAP 6.1.0 Final clearly has been made available under the LGPL. In order to download the zip and sources, one just has to login with one's JBoss Community userid and password, but at no point in time was I asked to acknowledge or agree to any other legal terms.

Once downloaded, the ZIP contains two relevant files: a LICENSE.txt which contains a copy of the LGPL 2.1, and a JBossEULA.txt which refers to this page http://www.redhat.com/licenses/jboss_eula.html. Neither the LGPL (as per its definition) nor the JBoss EULA make explicit statements or implies restrictions on the specific use of the software.

So, unless my understanding of the LGPL is completely wrong and I completely misunderstood the JBoss EULA, or there is still some unpublished "fine-print" that I am not aware of, there are no restrictions on where and when the provided EAP 6.1.0 Final can be used.

To make it crystal clear: I personally believe that the currently available EAP 6.1.0. Final can be legally used by anyone in any environment, including in a commercial production environment. And, in my interpretation of the current LGPL license and JBoss EULA, JBoss/RedHat will find no court on this planet that will prosecute people and organizations if they do use EAP 6.1.0 in a production environment, because there seems to be no legal basis for this.

On a separate but related note: it was my impression that until recently EAP was not actually "licensed" but people would get access to it under a support subscription contract. The support subscription itself was actually not a license but provided proper professional support for the production-hardened JBoss AS called EAP. People could only get access to the binaries and source via the subscription, which was fine based on the LGPL. By the way, exactly the same is true for RedHat Enterprise Linux - you don't buy a "license" but you buy professional support for a production-hardened open source OS. Now, since JBoss/RedHat decided to remove that hurdle to access EAP and made it publicly available without any explicit usage restrictions, they opened up the use to everybody for any use case one would wish!

If JBoss/RedHat really wanted to restrict the usage of EAP the way you indicated above, they either have to go back to the old model and resctrict access to people with subscriptions only or better be served in changing the license of EAP to a more restrictive proprietary license that legally enables them to do that.

Again, I am not a lawer or real legal expert, but unless I get some explicit pointers to legally binding documents that tells me otherwise, I must assume my assertions are correct.

P.S. I did go back to your original post and double checked the link you provided regarding the JBoss Developer Program. On that page, it is stated that by agreeing to the terms and conditions of the JBoss Developer Program, one cannot use the software in prodcution, unless one would pay the subscription fee. However, and here is the point, at no point in time during the download of the EAP 6.1.0 Final was I asked to agree (or disagree) to any terms and conditions and there is no file in the ZIP that indicates that this software has been released under the JBoss Developer Program. As a result of that the terms and conditions set forth in the JBoss Developer Program would not apply to me or anybody else downloading EAP from the public jboss.org site!

[jason.greene]

ulrichromahn wrote:

As per this site, EAP 6.1.0 Final clearly has been made available under the LGPL. In order to download the zip and sources, one just has to login with one's JBoss Community userid and password, but at no point in time was I asked to acknowledge or agree to any other legal terms.

You only have to agree to the subscription terms once. All subsequent downloads are under those original terms.

[ulrichromahn]

Jason,

what agreement are you talking about?

Maybe that point was buried too deep into my verbose response above, but I just downloaded EAP 6.1.0 Final yesterday from the public jboss.org/jbossas site and I was never asked to agree to anything. Could this be a glitch in your website?

So, as far as I am concerned, I have never agreed to any of JBoss' subscription terms (at least as a private person - it is a different case for my job as we are an active RedHat customer already ). Or could it be that I agreed to it some time earlier unrelated to that download? In this case, can you guys show me that I have agreed to them since I don't recall this?

Would it be necessary to change your download for EAP 6.1.0 Final? I do think so if you really want to make it clear. You should take a look how Oracle manages the Java downloads on their site and ask people to agree to the license terms on every download.