Webinar Introduction to Red Hat Developer Studio

[de54hsa]

Hi there,

is it possible that the recorded webinar of Introduction to Red Hat Developer Studio will be published before the final release of the product?!

best regards

Holger Sachse

[maxandersen]

Yes - the two things are not interconnected ;)

the recorded webinar is currently being processed to be available online which apparently is a timeconsuming job but I hope to see it up soon (also because I couldn't make it, so i'm curious to see it too ;)

[de54hsa]

Max,

for a guy in my decision situation this is interconnected. Let me explain why!

I am working as product manager ERP in a medium sized IT company providing software in a 7 billion Euro group of companies. Currently I am checking the future of our development and runtime framework, which must be suitable for a team of 100+ developer und users in the range of 20 to 1.000+.

Here I am looking strongly on the potentials of community driven solutions. Due to the range of small to big companies, we are looking for a solution, which can provide services for thin and fat clients based on the same (workflow driven) central business application logic.
Checking ideas, tools and developments in the last month shows the following results:

? All necessary tools are on the market
? Unfortunately for us not from one supplier and/ or one community
? The Jboss community has by far the most complete offering but the needed components are in sum not at a maturity level to serve a commercial development organization of our size
? This may be acceptable if there would be for example a IDE helping in integration (or other offerings)
? Even this is not the case; for example, I need the joined power of Eclipse, the Jboss IDE, MyEclipse, Netbeans etc. plus some things like Taylor.

Seeing Jboss?s announcement in March I hopped that I would give the necessary kick for my decision preparation. I understand that the technical preparation needs some time but from a marketing perspective the current situation (sorry to say that) is near to hara-kiri. The permanent expression ?stay tuned? may attract single developers or small development team but not people in my situation.

I could not join the webinar nor do I get a glue if (hand how) the Red Hat Developer Studio will improve the maturity level or if it is just the some of Jboss IDE and Exadel?s product. These are the thinks I need to know now for my proposal and not with the release date.

Best regards
Holger Sachse

[maxandersen]

Maybe you misunderstood me ;)

I meant to say that the webinar is planned to be out *before* we are doing a *final* release of RHDS.

And we plan to do more community releases *before* we are doing a *final* release of RHDS.

I would love to hand out our current work, but unfortunately can't because we are still working on cleaning up to be able to do a release under a proper opensource license.

Currently downloading the free Exadel studio + jbosside is the best way to get a feel of what will be in the release.

But the plan is definitly not to just combine the two and do a nice polish we also want to improve it and if you have some concerns about "maturity" then please speak up so we can hear what concerns you have.

[de54hsa]

Max,

this is the first attempt to speak up. I have so many things in mind and I think it is too much for a forum. Maybe I have to write it into a paper.

Some of the things are also not well sorted on my side. In my organization I would call for a brainstorming season at this stage. Because I am new to this type of working as you are used to I am not sure to how handle it. I am not a guy who can communicate all the things I have in mind via electronic media.

I need physical meetings with white boards and meta plan facilities or maybe a video conference. Is there any chance that I can bring in my ideas in such a form?

For me it is no problem to come to your location, I am east (Bolzano) of you in our usual 6 hours driving range.

best regards

Holger Sachse

[maxandersen]

If you want to come and visit me in Neuchatel then feel free - I got a whiteboard here ;)

[de54hsa]

P.S.

with maturity I do not mean the maturity level of each individual component. I see it from our needs. We need an environment which works seamless together with minimal integration efforts from our side.

Reading all the documentation and following the trial staff I think the efforts described are still to high.

Some of the integrations (due to the intended flexibility) are on lower level than expected. For example jBPM and SEAM offer a lot but I thing organizations like us need less. If the mentioned couple would provide a standard work flow list handling suitable for SWING and JSF GUIs this would save us a lot of development time.

Yes I can find a lot of projects providing solutions for that issue. But they are deeply graved into their development philosophies that I have to port more into our solution than need and this is inverting the costs effect.

A solution coming from jBPM and SEAM would help tremendous. May be I am expecting more than what is intended. I thing if the community can cover also such issues the leverage in commercial use will boost.

Holger Sachse

[de54hsa]

Max,

name me a date. With the exception of the first two weeks in July (holidays) I am flexible at the moment.

Holger Sachse

[maxandersen]

Sounds like you are considering more the "lower level" than the IDE.

Swing workflow as in remote/detached rich clients is not a focus point for Seam but it is on the roadmap for the future but can't say when.

What are those "lot of projects" you see provide the solutions you are looking for ?

[de54hsa]

Regarding the level. I will try to bring my ideas in a paper in the next two weeks than things may become more visible.

Regarding the projects, here four examples:

1.) Jfire.org from NigthLabs GmbH, they just integrated jBPM into there Alpha version
2.) Camunda GmbH are mentioning a commercial project and published some code of it.
3.) John Gilbert the one behind Taylor mentions that they are using it for a customer project. Taylor uses jPBM and SEAM
4.) The Phoenics Project of the German Bauberufsgenossenschaft (bg-phoenics.de). They are not using Jboss but IBM tools. They developed the integration of J2EE tools and workflow on a more business application nearer level. That is where my requirements are coming from.


I remember that I passed more three sites mentioning the jBoss combinations but I forgot their names. If you have a look at OfBiz from Apache, Compiere and its branch Adpiere, they use similar concepts but different toolset.

Does this help, or is it common knowledge?!

Holger Sachse

[maxandersen]

Ok, so you are more looking for full fledged ERP/CRM solutions than general development frameworks and tooling.

I know there are moves within jboss to handle some of these things but i'm not the expert on those areas ( I only know that out of the 4 mentioned about #3 Taylor is the one that I personally think has the best abstraction and "in-sync" with some of the movements lately in the j2ee space...the others seem very highlevel which tend to end up one having to bend it ...)

[de54hsa]

Max,

is it possible that you can give me a contact who is handling the mentioned moves in jboss. I am interested to bring such things forward and willing to participate.

I terms of mission, vision, architecture and product positioning I may be able to give some inputs.

Holger Sachse

[maxandersen]

I've sent out a ping...will be back when I get a reply.

[rgordon]

Yes - the two things are not interconnected ;)

the recorded webinar is currently being processed to be available online which apparently is a timeconsuming job but I hope to see it up soon (also because I couldn't make it, so i'm curious to see it too ;)

Is the Webinar available online yet?. I would be very interested to see it.

Thanks,

Richard

[maxandersen]

Not yet, but the slides (mostly overview info) have been made available at http://jboss.com/services/online_education

Once the recorded webinar is up it will also be there.