1 2 3 Previous Next 30 Replies Latest reply on Nov 10, 2015 10:22 AM by James Willow

    Migration from Tuxedo

    Joice Joy Newbie

      Hi,

       

      I am working on a migration project to move our middleware from Tuxedo

      to another Middleware product.

       

      We are evaluating Blacktie from JBoss. As i believe it is now merged

      with Narayana TS, we need some information about it:

       

      1. The future roadmap for Narayana.

      2. Links about the capabilities of the Narayana Transaction Server and

      if possible a comparison with Tuxedo.

      3. Sample code for using Narayana.

       

      Please help with the above or point to a location where information

      can be gathered about the above.

       

      Thanks and Regards,

      Joice Joy

      Comverse

        • 1. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
          Amos Feng Apprentice

          1. The future roadmap for Narayana

              I think it could be useful with our Jira issues JBoss Transaction Manager - JBoss Issue Tracker

          2. Links about the capabilities of the Narayana Transaction Server and if possible a comparison with Tuxedo

             Narayana Homepage · Narayana

          3. Sample code for using Narayana

              https://github.com/jbosstm/quickstart

           

          Thanks,

          Amos

          • 2. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
            Tom Jenkinson Master

            Supplementing Amos' answer. Although the home page itself is a great entry point, this is quite a nice overview: Narayana Features · Narayana although its not particular to just BlackTie and applies to the entire Narayana project.

             

            The thing that Tuxedo and BlackTie totally share in common is an implementation of XATMI and TX. Tuxedo and BlackTie then diverge as implementations do on various other features, so if you are considering specific features you want to contrast with Tuxedo please do ask.

            1 of 1 people found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
              Joice Joy Newbie

              Thanks for the replies.

               

              Please pardon my ignorance but I have doubts regarding Blacktie, Red Hat JBoss Enterprise Application Platform and Narayana. Unfortunately the documents I have accessed so far do ont clarify how these integrate as a solution.

               

              Currently we do have a JBoss Enterprise Application Platform license and would like continue to use that. I have found on internet that Blacktie are Tools to support XATMI in Java EE

               

              But now Blacktie is integrated with Narayana which is JBoss Transaction Server.

               

              Could you help us understand if Blacktie can be integrated with JBoss EAP and used to migrate our Tuxedo based Middleware solution to JBoss EAP.

               

              Or is Blacktie only compatible with Narayana and we need to use Narayana for migration.

              • 4. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
                Joice Joy Newbie

                Hi Tom,

                 

                I have checked Blacktie and it appears that it can be used with Java EAP.

                 

                Need to ask a few questions about specific Blacktie features like the Blacktie data buffer's features vs Tuxedo's FML and Data based Routing etc.

                 

                Is there someone I could contact for this. It would be a great help as in order to create a POC, I need to create a utility that can convert our internal data sharing structures to Blacktie buffers.

                 

                Please help with this.

                • 5. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
                  Amos Feng Apprentice

                  Thanks Joice for your interesting with the Blacktie,

                   

                  Feel free to contact me (zfeng@redhat.com) for any question about the Blacktie and it is great to work with you.

                   

                  Amos

                  • 7. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
                    Joice Joy Newbie

                    Thanks for your replies.

                     

                    I have tried to analyse the JBoss offering as a solution.

                    If we deploy Blacktie on Wildfly as a replacement to Tuxedo based application, are the following applicable


                    1. As Wildfly is a part of JBoss EAP, it is safe to say that blacktie is safe to work with JBoss EAP.

                    2. Blacktie which is now a part of Narayana is shipped with Narayana only or separate as well.

                    3. Also is Narayana included in Wildfly or does Wildfly uses another Transaction Management software.

                    4. I have got a link to future roadmap for Narayana. Does the same apply to Blacktie. If not then what is the future plan for blacktie.


                    Lastly what is the basic difference between Wildfly and Narayana

                     

                    Please pardon the long list lot of questions.

                    • 8. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
                      Tom Jenkinson Master

                      Joice Joy wrote:

                      1. As Wildfly is a part of JBoss EAP, it is safe to say that blacktie is safe to work with JBoss EAP.

                      Not strictly. BlackTie is a community project that builds on top of WildFly (and Narayana) to provide XATMI compatibility. The only application server it is tested to work with is WildFly, although as WildFly is part of EAP it should be possible to deploy WildFly on top of the EAP version that BlackTie is developed against. You can usually tell the version of WildFly we test against in the pom.xml:  narayana/pom.xml at 5.2.2.Final · jbosstm/narayana · GitHub

                       

                      An important distinction is that you can purchase commercial support for EAP but not for BlackTie.

                      2. Blacktie which is now a part of Narayana is shipped with Narayana only or separate as well.

                      BlackTie requires certain extensions to a transaction manager that are best met by Narayana. For example is uses REST-AT (a REST based transaction protocol) to perform transaction coordination. This would be possible to replace with another REST-AT implementation but we do use I think one proprietary hook into Narayana that would not replicate. It might be possible to break that link into an SPI or something. It is basically a way to look up transactions by their identifier IIRC.

                      3. Also is Narayana included in Wildfly or does Wildfly uses another Transaction Management software.

                      WildFly does include Narayana (at least certain components of it). The components in WildFly (and EAP) are: JTA/JTS/XTS. The components in WildFly only (i.e. not commercial support) can be found here: Narayana Features · Narayana

                      4. I have got a link to future roadmap for Narayana. Does the same apply to Blacktie. If not then what is the future plan for blacktie.

                      Yes, Narayana and BlackTie share the same roadmap.

                      Lastly what is the basic difference between Wildfly and Narayana

                      Narayana is the name for a suite of software known as the premiere open source transaction manager. It is a community project and has all the features listed on: Narayana Features · Narayana - so BlackTie is the sub project of Narayana which provides XATMI/TX APIs. WildFly is a community open source JEE application server. WildFly includes some components of Narayana out of the box: JTA/JTS/XTS/RTS.

                      EAP is the product that is supported commercially by Red Hat, but it would be better to talk to sales team to get more info on that one - parts of Narayana are supported in an EAP package but BlackTie is not part of EAP.

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                      • 9. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
                        Joice Joy Newbie

                        It is good to hear that Blacktie is tested to work with Wildfly. Geenerally, Application Servers include Transaction Management and as per you comments I believe that Wildfly uses Narayana for that purpose.

                         

                        As Tuxedo is an application server, we would need it to be replaced with another AS.

                        But you have mentioned that Blacktie is tightly coupled with Narayana. I see the following possibilities:

                        1. Use Wildfly + Blacktie

                        2. Use Wildfly + Narayana (which includes Blacktie)

                        3. Use Narayana as an Application Server (Not sure if this is possible)

                         

                        Which are possible and please sort according to stablity of the solution.

                        • 10. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
                          Tom Jenkinson Master

                          The only option you have is option 2, but in practical terms it looks more like option 1

                           

                          i.e. WildFly already includes several parts of Narayana, just not BlackTie out of the box.

                           

                          Basically you get a WildFly, and add the missing part of Narayana (BlackTie) on top.


                          This then gives you a JEE application server with the server side services to support C++ clients that use XATMI/TX.

                           

                          The C++ clients run outside of the application server, the application server hosts the services that these clients need (a message broker and transaction manager). You may have seen it already but running this quickstart should give you the best overview of how it all hangs together: quickstart/blacktie/xatmi/fooapp at master · jbosstm/quickstart · GitHub

                          • 11. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
                            Tom Jenkinson Master

                            tomjenkinson wrote:

                             

                            The C++ clients run outside of the application server, the application server hosts the services that these clients need (a message broker and transaction manager).

                            Just to confirm, what I mean by the services are the application server components, not the XATMI services.

                             

                            in other words: "The C++ clients and services run outside of the application server, the application server effectively provides the middleware infrastructure to connect these services and clients"

                            • 12. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
                              Joice Joy Newbie

                              The quickstart mentions hornetmq whereas I was recently told that Blacktie is currently using activemq

                               

                              Any changes in the quickstart because of this.

                              • 13. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
                                Tom Jenkinson Master

                                There shouldn't be a functional difference to you as a user. I have raised: [JBTM-2497] Update or remove references of HornetQ to Artemis - JBoss Issue Tracker to update or remove where possible the references to HornetQ.

                                 

                                Thanks for the report!

                                • 14. Re: Migration from Tuxedo
                                  Joice Joy Newbie

                                  The QS says :

                                  4. DEPLOY THE BLACKTIE ADMIN SERVICE

                                  Undeploy any older versions of the blacktie admin service

                                  Copy the file $BLACKTIE_HOME/blacktie-admin-services/blacktie-admin-services-<VERSION>.ear into $JBOSS_HOME/server/all-with-hornetq/deploy

                                  Copy the file $BLACKTIE_HOME/blacktie-admin-services/stompconnectservice-<VERSION.ear into $JBOSS_HOME/server/all-with-hornetq/deploy

                                   

                                   

                                  5. RUN THE APPLICATION SERVER

                                  Make sure that the naming, messaging and transaction services are running, by running the JBoss server:

                                  <JBOSS_HOME>/bin/run.sh|bat -c all-with-hornetq

                                   

                                   

                                  What should be done instead of the above steps

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