JBossDeveloper

I don't see something hard in putting the plugins together by hand. Do you?

OK thanks. I see. It sounds good to know that it will be cheaper than Exadel Studio.

If you want to put the plugins together yourself without the subscription, will the versions of all plugins in RHDS be official so it is easy to put the exatly same plugins together so you know they will work together?

In the plugins nightly build page there is a list with the plugins used to build the jboss tools.

grandfatha and others.

RHDS = JBossTools + JBossEAP 4.2 + Seam 1.2.EAP + RHDS installer/product configuration that preconfigures/bundles these 4 parts correctly.

JBossTools, JBoss AS and Seam is all freely available and if you put them in the same dir strcuture as RHDS does then most of the magic will happen for you too ;)

Regarding the subscription, is it per developer or per enterprise? Would I be able to get one subscription, get the installer and then install it on many computers?

Grandfatha, I know how you feel, the fact that you have all that .jars that you need with just one click is really good, but I am used to do that in Eclipse and after all, the fact that most of the components are from just one vendor (JBoss) makes it even more easier.

Maybe in the future we will have a "Fedora" Development Studio, you never know with Open Source communities ;-)

"max.andersen@jboss.com" wrote:
grandfatha and others.

RHDS = JBossTools + JBossEAP 4.2 + Seam 1.2.EAP + RHDS installer/product configuration that preconfigures/bundles these 4 parts correctly.

JBossTools, JBoss AS and Seam is all freely available and if you put them in the same dir strcuture as RHDS does then most of the magic will happen for you too ;)

Yeah, I'm kind of wondering what I'm missing too.

It seems like basically you are saying that all the pieces are available for free, we just have to work out how to put them together. It appears that this would cause enough pain that people would be willing to pay for RHDS to avoid having to go through the hassle. However, it is great that you are putting the Integrated back into the Eclipse IDE as opposed to the existing mish-mash of plugins that you hope play nice together. For me, that is worth paying for alone!

What about the fact that, if there was enough interest, someone could cobble this stuff together, and get it configured, and then put up their own free version with a 1-click download and install?

I know you throw in the supprt with the subscription as well, but frankly, I've never called tech support for an IDE (or anything else software related) in my life.

It's like giving away free apples, or selling them pre-peeled at a price with a telephone number to call if you have any problems eating them.

There are several things you get with an RHDS subscription that provide value:

• 
  
• we provide a pre-assembled distribution so you don't have to do this yourself
  
  
• we test and certify all the various components to work together. For example, we ensure that the versions of seam, seam-gen, and eclipse seam tooling all work together. And, we do this across the other components like Hibernate, JBoss AS, etc. Finally, we make sure that all the plugins are compatible with each other, and the runtime components are compatible with each other--along with all their dependencies. This is a lot of work!
  
  
• we will provide certified updates. Maybe you're willing to put everything together once. But, what happens if you want to upgrade to a new version of Seam? That involves upgrading Seam, your Seam tooling, and all dependencies. Once you've done that, do you know if the rest of your development environment still works?
  
  
• we include JBoss Enterprise Application Platform, which contains the versions of JBoss AS, Hibernate, Seam, and other components that we support in production for 5 years. This means that you can deploy the infrastructure on which you develop with confidence. Note also that we don't make the binaries of JBoss Enterprise Application Platform readily available. So, if you want to develop on JBoss Enterprise Application Platform, RHDS is the way to go
  
  
• we include Red Hat Enterprise Linux and access to Red Hat Network, our online management tool, for development purposes. Again, we don't make this readily available.
  
  

Will there be available information what plugins i have to assemble miself to get it working.

If somebody goes through the hassel of integrating this stuff and then offers his work (the complete version) for download on his own server, will you start to send him cease-desist letters?


I agree that providing a tested/functional version is a lot of work and it makes sense to offer a subscription model for projects that could use this 5 year support. But what if I would like to use RHDS for some small project? I wont need the support at all. I just feel bad about evangelising my project development team about Seam and the great tools of JBoss, when all of that stuff is going to make us pay money for an IDE. I mean, if we had the money to do that, we could go for VisualStudio and ASP.NET, too. I bet their products have an even higher level of integration/robustness/ease of use then the currently still beta RHDS. But we neither have the ressources nor do we want to be lured into some kind of "pay us money to make this technology easily usable" business model.

first of all - Grandfatha - cool it!

Secondly, JBoss Tools is freely available; if you don't want the full package with JBoss EAP etc. then use that.

If you want to do your own custom "RHDS" then it is just like if you wanted to do a custom distro of Red Hat .... e.g. look at Fedora and Centos (e.g. its not called Red Hat nor is it branded as such)

Furthermore as far as I know the pricetag nor subscription model for RHDS have not been revealed so why don't you wait and see if that is something affordable ?

But even more importantly, this is opensource and you are *more* than welcome to come and contribute to the project if you don't feel payment by money is the right way for you to get better software.

If my post sounds cocky or arrogant in any way, then I apologize for that. I was not my intent. Actually it was a real question maybe written in the wrong words.



I have no problem with Red Hat offering RHDS under a subscription based model. My question concerned the following scenario: What if somehow somebody manages to take all the necessary plugins/etc to build a free version of RHDS that works with the same environment as RHDS will do (Specific version of Seam+ specific version of xy +...). He then goes on to publish this build to make it freely available.


Will Red Hat allow that?


(I hope I chose better words this time. I dont want to offend anybody, nor do I want to put the hard work in question that was necessary to build RHDS).

Yes, that would be fine as long as it is not called Red Hat Developer Studio and all the branding is removed.

This is no different than any other opensource project I believe.

It's like RedHat and Fedora/Centos.

So are there any news or rumors around how much RHDS final will cost, what kind of licence is used and such things?

Thx.

IIRC about a year ago the Red Hat Subscription was advertised as $350 for 5 users. Since then I haven't been able to find it easily on Red Hat's web site.

Also, this article http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/57135.html talks about $99 per user which would be in line with the 350/5 users offering a 30% discount for 5 licenses. CDW offers 5 standard developer subscriptions for $274, Best Buy offers it for $305.

However, bear in mind this is per year, and I'm not even sure we are talking about the same products (i.e. does this subscription include RHDS?)